LETTER: Our churches are no longer churches

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in Opinions

Monday, May 25. 2009

Comments (83)

Dear Editor:

Our churches are no longer churches anymore. They’re more like a dance hall or a bar. We’ve got dancing in our churches, rap music. What else will the devil move in?

I don’t believe the church members really realize what they are doing. We don’t stand up for God anymore. We’d rather do as they do on TV.

When they took prayer out of school, we let that pass by. Now there’s abortions, same sex marriage. We’ve let that pass by. Now there’s dancing, rap music, what else to come? We’ll let that pass by.

But when God comes back, he’ll say I never knew you. And guess what, he’ll pass by. We’re losing people in church every day. But the people haven’t quit the church, the church has quit the people.

Sincerely,

Weldon Ingram

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#1 Chris on 05/25/09 at 09:57 PM [Reply]

Wow! What a issue to deal with. I take it that Mr. Ingram has been at this church for a long time and maybe some changes have happened to re direct the focus of the church in who they are trying to reach. The structure of beliefs of the bible-based church have not changed, just the way they are presented. Churches reaching out with more of a social and "non-traditional" events to people who may have never experienced the way that I or Mr. Ingram may have with "church". God moves, God directs. If you feel that the church has changed and has lost the direction, it shows with gimmicks to grow, but don't...Mr. Ingram there is a church for anyone to contemporary to traditional. I suggest searching for god;s direction for yourself, He may be telling you to go somewhere else.

#2 David in Comer on 05/25/09 at 10:57 PM [Reply]

Amen and when they dance they call it praise to God but someone has to make up the moves they do and they practice every move they do. Who does what,when,where,and how? That is not church. I wasn't brought up that way. I was raised to RESPECT Gods house. If someone gets in the sprit and starts to dance that's fine and you can tell it's really God touching them.I don't think dancing has any place in church and if you want to dance that bad go to a bar. Go to Athens there's one on about every corner.
Alot of people went to church to watch the Super Bowl on a big screen TV,And I have heard of churches that have sandwich shops in them so you can go buy food during the service.
I have ask what's next? They going to start putting bars in churches? That way you can go get drunk Saturday night pass out in another room and be on time for church Sunday morning?
They say all these things are a way to bring the world in to church but with the world comes the devil?
Our Good Bible based churches are becoming a thing of the past. The Bible is the same as it was when it was written,it was the same for our Grand parents,it is the same for us, and it will be the same in 1000 years if the world stands that long? God is the same yesterday,Today,and forever

#2.1 Tyler Mize on 05/26/09 at 01:04 PM [Reply]

Yes God may be the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow but the people change. You must try different ways to reach them. Yes, some churches take it a little to far some times but atleast they are trying to draw them in. They are trying to do things that draw in those type of people. Yes they will hear the gospel sometime in life, but atleast this way they will hear it more than just once. A lot of people hear it once, it bores them, and that is it. Atleast this way it will draw them in more and more until they start coming regularly and eventually get saved.

And this with the Super Bowl...atleast they won't see the bad commercials that were shown and they will actually be at church. Otherwise, they will be at home, watching this bad commercials, and doing all the wordly things. Another way of drawing people in to Chirst!!!

#2.1.1 Madison County Resident on 05/27/09 at 10:45 AM [Reply]

well you have your opinion and I have mine but your wrong about the super bowl part? They see the same thing at church that the people seen at home? How would you like to be in church watching the super bowl and all of a sudden Janet Jacksons boob flop out in church? Yes they seen it too. I talked to a guy that went to Colbert to church to watch the game and he was talking about Janet Jacksons boob.
The way you are talking saying you got to do stuff to get the world In church? They could get a bigger crowd in church if they would start selling beer in church too? Don't say O.h.they will never do nothing like that because what's the difference? SIN IS SIN there is no big sin and little sin?

#2.1.1.1 Tyler Mize on 05/29/09 at 08:40 AM [Reply]

Many churches block the half time and commercials. So they don't see the bad parts. They make their own funny commercials to play during the commercials. Their are programs that let you do that. It is very simple to do. Then they are at church and not seeing the bad parts.

Your right...they would get a bigger crowd that way. But that is not biblical. There is nothing in the bible though agianst praising God in different ways and trying to reach out to people in different ways. As long as you are staying biblical in the way you reach out, there is nothing wrong with it.

#2.1.2 David in Comer on 05/29/09 at 10:47 AM [Reply]

I agree with you bu some churches didn't block the half time show because they didn't know about the boob incident

#2.2 Anonymous on 05/27/09 at 08:13 PM [Reply]

People like you is what keeps most people out of church. You wonder why church doesn't grow, cause you try to please yourself and not reach out to those who need it. I bet if i went where you are i would fall asleep before it got started. You need to check yourself. If your doing something for God the devil is not going to win. Thought you would know that. I'm pretty sure you are the weak one and need some help.

#2.2.1 Madison County Resident on 05/28/09 at 09:24 AM [Reply]

I wasn't saying it was wrong JUST I wasn't raised that way? I said I wouldn't do it and therefore I can't support it? If you want to do it then YOU get up there and shake your booty but since I think it's wrong it would be a sin if I did it? I don't care if everyone in Madison County was doing it I would be the odd duck because I wouldn't do it and I think we have a good church the way your Grandparents remember church to be.We have alot of older members and some younger ones.
Let me ask you this question? Just sit and think about watching your Grand Parents up there dancing acting like they are having a fit? I can't

#2.2.1.1 Shawn Cox on 05/29/09 at 11:11 AM [Reply]

That's the problem with the church today, they are freakin' scared to show any emotion. I think we can all agree that our true purpose here on earth is to worship; the Bible says that exclusively. Look the words "praise" and "worship" up in the dictionary, they are both verbs. Verbs mean ACTION!!! Why is it people have a problem with dancing like David did in the Bible? The Bible doesn't say the Spirit got on him and caused him to dance... rather he danced cause he was excited to see the presence of God enter back into Israel. Oh and get this, God said what? That David was a man after his own heart...ouch. Maybe you can't dance in your church because you don't have the TRUE presence of God. Instead you might have a representation of what God looked like when your Grandparents were alive. Read your Bible if you have one, cause even though God offers the same truth from age to age, He always shows Himself comletely different to each generation. And let me inteject here and say that God shows Himself different to each generation because each generation needs Him in a different way. I know a fourteeen year old girl that is pregnant with twins. She attended a traditional church like yours for a year or so and went to sleep cause it was so boring. Now she's pregnant. That might have been the one chance for God to reach her and get her saved but because of people like you not allowing anything to reach her generation she walked out the same way she walked in. I'm sorry I'm so harsh, but I'm sick of personal opinions ruling the church. Get this, Worship ain't for you anyway, its for our God and our God likes dance. Maybe you are happy seeing the same part of God your grandparents saw, BUT I'm not. Until I see God's presence so intense that the people are all slain in the Spirit like in the Old Testament I won't be happy and neither should you. I agree, some of the methods we use today shouldn't have to be used, but we as the church are forced to, because people like you sat on your rear end while prayer got yanked out of school and even while this new law prohibiting preachers from saying anything about the abomination of homesexuality got passed a couple of weeks ago. Yea, I bet you didn't even know that happened cause you were so worried about souls getting saved to new methods. It doesn't matter how we get them in, what matters is that they get the gospel truth and get saved...Right??? Thats the church's purpose. Do the true church a favor and get in and shut up and let's win souls for Christ.

#2.2.1.1.1 David in Comer on 05/29/09 at 02:00 PM [Reply]

LOOK I SAID I WAS DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS IF YALL WANT TO FUSS GO AHEAD BUT I HAVE MOVED ON

#2.2.2 Madison County Resident on 05/29/09 at 11:13 PM [Reply]

Ok who's not wanting to serve the Lord now?You want to run DavidinComer downbecause he don't believe in the dancing he said you could do it if you want? Is sleeping in church how you got saved and how you serve him now that you are supposed to be saved? I'll tell you like I tell everyone if you are going to sleep in church you might as well stay home and you wouldn't sleep in church if you didn't get drunk Saturday night or let a big man sit behind you so when you nod of he slaps you in the back of the head or thumps you on the ear?

#2.2.2.1 Anonymous on 05/30/09 at 10:39 AM [Reply]

YOU AND DAVID IN COMER ARE THE SAAAMMMEE PERSON! YOU SEEM VEERRYY ANGRY IN EVERY POST AND SHOULD STOP STIRRING THE POT ON EVERY TOPIC.

#2.2.2.1.1 David in Comer on 05/31/09 at 01:43 PM [Reply]

Yes we is the same people. You say Me is angry in every post? Why is that? Maybe because this section is for opinions but SOME people seem to get pissed off because your opinion don't match theirs.Opinions are like buttholes everybody has one and they are all different.
Whoa wait a second. What about you being angry?You posted your whole comment in capital letters. In school they told us that if you wrote in all capital letters that meant you were yelling.Calm down your blood presure is going to go up and you going to have a stroke?

#3 MEMBER OF A GREAT BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH! on 05/26/09 at 06:27 AM [Reply]

http://www.crookedcreekbaptistchurch.org THIS CHURCH IS A BIBLE TEACHING AND BIBLE PREACHING WE HAVE TEEN ACTIVITIES THAT ARE FUN AND YET BIBLE BASED FEEL FREE TO VIST THE WEB SITE OR BETTER YET THE CHURCH IT'S SELF MAY GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU ! P.S. SUNDAY SCHOOL IS GREAT TOO !!

#4 aDANCINGchristian on 05/26/09 at 09:02 AM [Reply]

If you have read your BIBLE you would see that dancing is not from the DEVIL, but a way of expressing your praise for GOD!!!

Psalms 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psalms 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Ecc. 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

#4.1 David in Comer on 05/26/09 at 11:13 AM [Reply]

I know what the Bible says about it and yes I know David danced BUT do you not think it's wrong to practice every step and everything that's said and done? If it is done to praise God why you got to practice every step and everyone knows what they are going to say before they get up there?
If I am wrong in my thinking I will have to answer for it.

#4.1.1 DR on 05/28/09 at 08:35 PM [Reply]

David,
Does the choir practice at your church? What is the difference in practicing song or children's church practicing for the christmas play,etc...IT is all praise.

#4.1.1.1 David in Comer on 05/29/09 at 11:02 AM [Reply]

Well Doc.No my church don't have a chior not enough people

#4.1.1.1.1 I Wonder??? on 05/29/09 at 01:53 PM [Reply]

I wonder why... If the rest are like you then they are scared to come. They are afraid if they try to praise and worship God, they might be condemed.

#5 Tyler Mize on 05/26/09 at 12:52 PM [Reply]

First off, I come from a church that split over the issue of dancing in the church. There is nothing wrong with dancing in the church. As long as it is praise to God, then it is perfectly fine. The verses from #4 prove that.

With the rap issue...this is also a form of praise. Today, many teens are drawn in by rap. They listen to the wordly version of rap so why not have some clean, decent Christian music for them to listen to instead of the other trashy music. Plus, these more contemporary and rap music draw in the youth. Many youth today don't want to hear gospel or hymns. They would rather have contemporary, upbeat music. So why not have music that applies to them and draws them in???

Not all churches are bad. All because churches are updating or catching up with the times doesn't mean they are no longer acting like a church. When a church gets a projector for announcements, listen to contemporary music, get a website, or update their soundsystem doesn't mean they are no longer a church; it just means they are trying to reach out to more people. They are trying to make the church the best house on the street. They are trying to pull in more people to Jesus Christ. We should be accepting of these new ways to draw people in. I for one, am all for the "old-fashion way" but I also feel that we need to do different things to reach out to everyone.

Lastly, all because people are doing these things doesn't mean they are not saved. The only sin that will keep you from heaven is the sin of not believing. Once you accept Him, he cleanse your heart and gives you life eternal. No matter what you do, what you say, or how you praise your salvation is secure.

I pray America once agian sees God and what he is doing for them and through them. That people will accept the new ways of drawing people in to Christ. I pray that the churches will come back together and not act as if they are in competition. Let us all reach out to people and not feel as though the new ways are wrong. Let revival stir through Madison County, Georgia, USA, and the world.

#5.1 Madison County Resident on 05/26/09 at 03:47 PM [Reply]

Tyler Mize if you think it's ok then you go eatch it and support it but I wasn't brought up that way,and I don't believe in it. My Dad has been a Baptist preacher for about the last 20 something years and he don't believe in it the way they do it. It looks like they are putting on a show and the Lord is not for show it is supposed to be serious and it is wrong to get up there and mock God. I do not support it and WILL not sit through it.If I go in a church not knowing that is going to take place and they start it I figure I walked in and I can walk out and I will. If I sit there through it I'm supporting it.
If I'm wrong I'll have to answer for that but I am not going to support it when I think it's wrong in my heart.

#5.1.1 Tyler Mize on 05/29/09 at 08:31 AM [Reply]

So I guess ya'll don't have music at VBS then...up there doing the motions to get the kids involved so they praise God. That is "reheared" and a "show." That is not mocking God and yet...IT IS DANCING!!!

#5.1.1.1 Madison County Resident on 05/29/09 at 10:21 AM [Reply]

Now you are getting on a whole different subject.Yes we have music for the kids at VBS BUT what I am saying is I have worked in strip clubs as Bartender and as a bouncer and alot of the dancing some of them are doing looks like a lap dance they just ain't all up on you and they have their clothes on.It may be O.k. but I won't be doing it! And it looks alot different to see kids under 10 years old doing it than it does when you got some 40 to 50 year olds up there doing it.For the younger people it may be fine but the older group needs to leave it alone.I don't know how old you are but if you want to do it? Go ahead and shake it but I won't join you.

#5.1.1.1.1 Tyler Mize on 05/29/09 at 01:44 PM [Reply]

Your dad's a preacher and your working in clubs...that sends out a real good message.

Also, all because your are dancing doesn't mean it is inapproprate. Dance is defined as "to move one's feet or body, or both, rhythmically in a pattern of steps, esp. to the accompaniment of music." according to dictionary.com. So to do the motions to songs at VBS is dance but yet we do that to PRAISE GOD!!! What you are trying to do is say dancing should not be done period. As long as it is not innapropriate, there is nothing wrong. And now, there is nothing wrong with an adult leading the children in this motions and getting them excited to they PRAISE God.

Lastly, if doing these dance motions are wrong, then why are there so many Dance Teams, Drama Teams, Clog Teams, and VBS Worship Teams in churches??? If it was so wrong I know that Baptist churches would definatly not do it, yet they have the majority of these teams.

Oh, and I have never danced innappropriatly in my life much less in a church. That would hurt my testimony just like working in a club does.

#5.1.1.1.1.1 David in Comer on 05/30/09 at 06:49 PM [Reply]

Who wait a minute Saint Tyler you say all this stuff about not wanting to hurt your testimony but is Ok for you to sit and Judge me? Yes I have worked in bars as both a bouncer and a bartender and yes i have drunk and did drugs but I went to sleep while driving and wrecked it almost killed me and I was in a coma about 9 weeks and stayed in the hospital almost 9 months.I got saved while in the hospital because I knew I was living my life on the wrong path so I changed my life. I think I have a good testimony and have been ask to go different places to talk to young people about changing their lives because I was 25 when I wrecked. I can relate to the pressures of drugs and drinking. So where do you get off talking about my testimony ain't good because I worked in a bar? I guess you've never did anything wrong and you've always done what your father said and told you to do?
Yes my Dad is a preacher BUT he is not responsible for what I did when I got old enough to move out.Just like your father is not responsible for what you do if you are an adult and not living in his house?
Let me ask you this? What do they mean when they say you have a personal relationship with God or a 1 on 1 relationship with God? I'll tell you, it means that my relationship with God is between me and him. You are not responsible for me and I am not responsible for you.

#6 MEMBER OF A GREAT BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH! on 05/26/09 at 01:51 PM [Reply]

if a church changes to fit you and the rest of the world then in my opinion something is wrong.. we need to take the narrow path and it is not a easy one but in the end it is worth it beleivers are to try and conform to the way christ wants... not the other way around if jesus came to the world today do you think he would go into a bar/dance club and hang out with the folks there? or do you thing he would use the old phrase follow me ?? i think the later p.s. to all that say (new way to draw folks to christ ) where is it in the bible ?? the only way is to have followers plant the seed and allow the holy sprit to work and make it grow when folks change things around from the bible way they develop a.i.d.s. of the sprit ( auto immune deficency syndrome )not to be confused with h.i.v.---- the syndrome will tell you that what you are doing is okay because everyone else is doing it in fact it is not! the more you do the more you will move away from christ!! the book of romans warns beleivers about this and instructs how to serve the lord jesus christ you are invited to come worship with us or if you want you can hear sermons online at http://www.crookedcreekbaptistchurch.org

#6.1 Weird on 05/28/09 at 11:31 AM [Reply]

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
But wisdom is justified of all her children." Luke 7:33-35

#7 Now this ... on 05/26/09 at 07:50 PM [Reply]

Ok. I'll put up with taking prayer out of school, abortions, and gay marriage. But dancing and rap music!?!? Blasphemy.

#8 Anonymous on 05/26/09 at 09:40 PM [Reply]

if u search you can find a church where the
gospel of Jesus never changes or bends with the
worlds view helpfull hint its a worldwide church
that belives u must baptized and not be saved
by grace alone judged by your goodworks too
how u find this church is by personal prayer

#9 Christian from Comer on 05/27/09 at 06:45 AM [Reply]

Hello. Everyone is welcome to join us at Oak Grove Baptist Church on Highway 172 in Comer. We still preach from the bible. We are an old-timed God fearing church. Please join us on Sunday. We are also having VBS on June 14th at 6pm for kids young and old.

#9.1 MEMBER OF A GREAT BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH! on 05/27/09 at 03:43 PM [Reply]

AMEN !

#10 Think about it on 05/27/09 at 07:35 AM [Reply]

Sir, it was your generation that let prayer be taken out of school and abortion to be legalized. Don't blame people for trying to change something that evidently didn't work too well when you were a young'un.

#11 Anonymous on 05/27/09 at 08:01 AM [Reply]

Every one on this blog that condems someones way of praising god should pray and study very hard at there own relationship with christ. This music that you call good ole hymns was at one time new and contraversial. The first believers only had there voices to praise god, yet it is ok to have a piano or organ. No just because someone dances sings rap, rock country gospel, does it trully matterr? The bible says we are to do everything as unto the lord. by condeming others ways maybe you should take a look at your walk with christ.

#11.1 Madison County Resident on 05/27/09 at 04:27 PM [Reply]

I don't condem no one for what they do to praise God.If you want to get up in front of the church and play gospel music and strip and call it showing praise to God then you go ahead. It's your wagon and you got to pull it but if it's wrong you have to answer for it? I said I didn't believe in it AND I wouldn't do it. So therefore I could not support it by going to watch it.
Everyone has to find their own plan of salviation? Everybodys may be different? That don't mean one is right and everyone else is wrong. That's like God may convict me that something is wrong so if I do it then it's a sin but he may not have told you so it's not a sin for you. I have heard this subject come up alot with smoking? I have heard people tell other people smoking will send you to Hell?

#11.1.1 reform_madison on 05/29/09 at 10:09 AM [Reply]

This is in response to 'Madison County Resident' remark #11.1

Wow. I understand that this a forum based on opinion. However, I also find it my duty to correct any statement or remark (especially coming from a professing christian) that may mislead or misrepresent Biblical truth.

In referense to your post, you stated that "everyone has to find their own plan of salvation... everyone's may be different". I cannot conceive of a more damnable remark. What you have said is contrary to the very words of Christ when He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

We are to condemn false teaching. We are called to correct irresponsible teaching. In regard to your comment on salvation, you are completely off base. Faith in Christ alone is our only means of salvation. Period.

Please consider the ramifications of believing in any other method or means of gaining favor with God. All other programs, plans, and gimmicks lead to destruction. I pray that you see clearly the gospel of Jesus Christ. He truly is the author and perfector of our faith.

#11.1.1.1 David in Comer on 05/29/09 at 01:28 PM [Reply]

No either you misunderstood me or I didn't go into enough detail. I know about Christ said he was the only way no man comes to the father but through me. But what I meant was that not everyone has to get saved in a church at an alter? You can get saved anywhere you call on the name of the Lord.Be it in church at an alter,in the fie,ld cutting hay,in a Deer stand,or in a hospital like I was after a very bad car wreck.The place is what I meant. And I have heard of people getting saved at gospel singings and at rivers fishing.
And when you get saved then you have a personal relationship with God then.It's not for me to question if you are doing wrong he will convict you that it's wrong.I wasn't putting nobody down for the way they want to praise God. I just said I didn't believe in dancing in church and I wouldn't do it.

#11.1.1.2 David in Comer on 06/04/09 at 02:20 PM [Reply]

No I don't know if you misunderstood me or I didn't explain it enough? When I said everyone had to find their own plan of salviation and everyones may be different? I didn't mean there are more than one way to be saved? Jesus is the only way the truth and the light.The only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus Christ.What I meant was People have been saved by preaching, by singings, by people going to witness to them? I meant There are different ways to witness to people to lead them to the Lord but the end result is you have to ask Jesus to save you? It don't matter what they are doing or where you are at you can be saved if you ask with your heart and believe in your heart?

#12 David in Comer on 05/27/09 at 04:36 PM [Reply]

Everyone is welcome to join us at Bible Baptist church in Danielsville we still preach from the Bible the old time way? The church is Located off Hwy.29 towards Athens on Clegehorne Rd. Sunday school starts at 10:00 a.m. every Sunday and church starts at 11:00 A.M.
EVERYONE IS WELCOME

#13 reform_madison on 05/28/09 at 09:36 AM [Reply]

First, let us take notice of Mr. Ingram's misunderstanding regarding the church. Here is where most display error - in that the common belief that all who profess Christendom are, in fact, a regenerate people - and secondly, that the church is comprised of brick, mortar, carpet and pews.

The church of Jesus Christ is not a building. The church is a body of believers who are united to Christ, by faith, working together towards one end - namely, that Christ be glorified among all nations; this being accomplished by the work of the Spirit and by the heralding of the Word of God.

The reason for the calamity spoken of by Mr. Ingram is not because God's people 'let anything pass by'. Those issues (abortion, homosexuality, etc) are more closely connected to God's judgement on a sinful people rather than His response to an indifferent 'church'.

Lastly, there will be no saint, not one of God's elect, that will be lost. The church is not losing anyone. People who profess to know the truth are falling away from a mere profession. Where the Word has not penetrated the heart there will be no perseverance.

The isssue is not music. The isssue is not abortion or gay union. The fundamental element missing in most church buildings today is solid, God-centered preaching. Pastors need not be upset with church practice if they are not preaching sound, biblical doctrine from behind the pulpit. In fact, they should expect that their churches bear fruit to Satan.

We cannot expect an unbelieving people to produce the fruits of righeousness. But, we can love them. And the greatest love that one can show the perishing soul is to make plain to them the gospel of Christ. He receives sinners. It is God's joy and pleasure. I pray that Christ be your focus, not man.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 1:19

#14 Sardonic Veracity on 05/28/09 at 11:20 AM [Reply]

There is only one plan for salvation that will work. Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and He died for your sins.

There are many ways to worship, however. Whether you are one of the "frozen chosen" (Baptist and Methodist) or a fire baptised dancing, clapping, tounge-speaking pentecostal, or any version in between, how you worship is between you and the Savior.

If you actually teach and read from the Bible, you will realize that dancing and clapping and raising hands and making a joyful noise unto the Lord is all in there. It is sad, however, to change a worship service to only include new forms of music and leave all the old hymns behind. It has been said that Baptists have gotten lost somewhere between Easter and Pentecost. In the same vein, I believe that some Holy Ghost churches have gone too far past Pentecost. Some balance should be found.

Churches are still churches, though. If one honestly seeks to praise God with any expression, who are you to say that their expression is not valid? Like one of the "Madison County Bible Teaching Baptist Preachers" is fond of saying, "pray for me because I need the prayer and you need the practice." Tere is nothing wrong with practicing worship - the more you do any type of worship, the better you may get. You, like Job, are not God. Remove the beam from your eye before you worry about the mote in someone else's.

#15 Bill on 05/28/09 at 11:21 AM [Reply]

Good! There are a thousand ways or more to reach God and religion is only one way. Really, who needs a church to pray? Being Spiritual is personal, between a person and their God.

#15.1 David in Comer on 05/29/09 at 11:04 AM [Reply]

you are so right thank you for putting that out here,

#16 This is crazy. on 05/28/09 at 06:35 PM [Reply]

First of all...how did this conversation go from the type of music played in church to stripping and bars?? There is a huge difference between Christian lyrics set to a different beat and being in a bar! However, someone above asked if Jesus came back would he be going into bars...as a matter of fact, he would. Jesus reached out to tax collectors, whores, theives, and SINNERS in general...you better believe he would reach out to those people now too. If it takes a good beat with a Christian message to get those folks out of the bar and onto a church pew, then I say GOD is amazing in the way that he draws people to him through a simple song.

Music is a very powerful force...it always has been, that's why it's mentioned in our Bible and used in every major religion in the world. Music has the power to move people and the good Lord knows that...and if there is a song that teaches the gospel then it will be used to His purpose, no matter that rhythm behind it.

Don't believe me? You don't have to...I know it from first-hand experience. It was songs by bands such as Kutless, 12 Stones, Casting Crowns, Third Day, and G.R.I.T.S. (yes, CHRISTIAN rock and rap) that brought me back to my God...I was as lost as you could get and the message of a very modern Christian song is what brought me to my knees before the Lord. Because of this experience not only did I get saved and go back to church, but my two little children are with me. You tell me this kind of music is a sin, even though it speaks of my Jesus and what he's done for me? I say shame on you.

#16.1 David in Comer on 05/28/09 at 09:09 PM [Reply]

Ok if your so smart? What kinds of music do they play in bars and strip clubs?? Rock and Rap... I have never been in a bar or strip club that played Gospel music and I have been to bars all over this country and in other countrys when I was lost. Yes I was lost once but I was raised in church and knew better than to do the stuff they do now? My parents would have beat me. GET THIS I WILL SAY IT ONE MORE TIME FOR YOU PEOPLE WHO CAN'T READ VERY WELL? If your kids can read get them to read this next sentence and explain it to you.I AM NOT PUTTING NOBODY DOWN FOR DOING IT I WAS SAYING I WOULD NOT DO IT BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE IN IT. If you want to do it then go ahead and more power to you but I don't have to watch it and I won't? I am 37 years old and nobody can make me do nothing I don't want to do. I decide what I will or will not so.

#16.2 jasbury55 on 05/29/09 at 12:58 PM [Reply]

I grew up in a Southern conservative church, read the KJV, sang out of a hymnal and used only a piano and Hammond organ in the musical accompaniment. We didn’t have color TV, air conditioners, microwaves or computers. We didn’t drink, smoke or chew and didn’t go with the girls that do. (Well at least that last part hasn’t changed). I have never clamed to be perfect but I follow the One who is.
Psalms 149:6 states “Let them praise His name with dancing.” Now, my English teacher taught me that the ‘you’ is the understood subject, ‘you, the reader.’ I can’t dance a lick. But I do enjoy a dance that glorifies the Lord. Some say that dancing ‘in the Spirit’, is not choreographed and planned. Most of the music we sing in church is ‘choreographed’ or planned and written out. It has meter, notes, harmony, words, and punctuation written by someone, planned out to be sung in a certain style you know exactly what to sing. John Wesley told his parishioners to sing songs exactly as they were written.
John Newton who wrote ‘Amazing Grace’ just wrote the words, they did not sing that song to the melody we have come to know it as. They sang those songs to familiar tunes the people knew, many from melodies that were heard in taverns.(You) Study church music history.
The Bible tells us to sing in Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, making melody in our hearts. What kind of music do they sing in Heaven in Revelation 14:3? What kind of music did Jesus and his disciples sing in Mark 14:26? I don’t think it was ‘Amazing Grace’, nether was it Southern Gospel, Gregorian chants, hip hop, Wesley’s hymns, Black Gospel, Contemporary Christian, Antiphonal Psalmody, or rap. Now I like some of these, some I don’t. Whether it is the barber shop quartet style of music of the late 1800’s by Lelia Morris or the Baroque of Bach or the hip hop of Toby Mac, it is praising God in the current music style. Music is just the vehicle to get the message out, and the message of the before mentioned people is to bring glory of God, and to speak to people on their level. Jesus spoke on the people’s level, whether it was to Nicodemus or the prostitute at the well.
Dance can be a vehicle also. Satan has held on to this form of worship for too long and has defiled so we think of it only as sensual and most of it is sensual. All I have seen of the choreographed dance is to music and that music carries a message also. So there are two things that carry that message. There are people who dance in the flesh and those who dance in the spirit, whether choreographed or not. Some people fake it also. The same is true about singers. Some do a good job of singing just to bring glory to them selves.
There are some people who don’t like some styles of worship. Some people don’t like McDonald’s either, then don’t go there. Go some other place. As long as it is not directly contradicting scripture it should be OK. I may not (or may) like the way a church worships or sings in Mexico or in India or South Africa. That is for them. Go to a church where you can worship the way you feel free to and hear the Word.
There are a lot of agnostics and unbelievers who are getting a good ‘Hew Haw” about this whole thread of opinions. What message are we giving to them? I know we have freedom of the press and that Christians should be free to express and speak about Jesus and Biblical principles but at what cost to the cause of Christ?
I feel that the Bride of Christ is getting herself ready for the biggest wedding ever. She is brushing up on her worship ,in Spirit and in truth, in music ( …and dance), in purity , in praise and power as this Great event is closer than we can only imagine.

#17 ronald Jennings on 05/28/09 at 08:41 PM [Reply]

Boy, Couldn't have said it better myself. Seems we are all missing the obvious. God is about service, not money collected, not building a new gym. When was the last time they showed someone feeding the homeless or the hungry? Great comment, keep them comming.

#18 David in Comer on 05/29/09 at 10:59 AM [Reply]

Well I've had it with fussing about this.Lets face it we all have different opinions and there are some things we just ain't going to agree on so I'm done you serve the Lord your way and I will serve him my way and if we all get to heaven I'll see you there. That's it PERIOD
THE END

#18.1 Sardonic Veracity on 05/29/09 at 02:31 PM [Reply]

If everyone would take that attitude, other than holding to the main themes, Christianity would be better off.

#19 Deborah on 05/29/09 at 03:52 PM [Reply]

I've tried couple churches and wasn't comfortable. It's not the same as it was when I was growing up. But I do know that Toccoa Church of God is the best one but kinda to far to drive. Use to you wear dresses now you wear sundress, strapless dress with boobs showing wow that's the best way to dress. I've tried Compass Community Church on Hwy. 29 Athens, Ga. OMG that's so GROSS!!! Kinda like EMO, Glothic and half naked clothes, wear Harley Davidson tank top, head banded and can drink anything in that church. I stayed there 10 minutes and left and will never go back. My son loves it but he ain't going not under my roof. Now you hear Preachers child molested kids no way I can't find a church anymore.... But I might give a Bible Baptist church a try. Pretty much I stay at home listen to Franklin Jen from Gainesville. Every thing has changes 10 commandments must be put down but mine is staying up on my wall. David I would like to meet you one day.

#19.1 David in Comer on 05/30/09 at 04:39 PM [Reply]

Yes Deborah we would he happy to have you at Bible Baptist church. Sunday school starts at 10:00a.m. and church starts at 11:00a.m.if you have kids bring them too we have Sunday school for all ages. I help teach the teenage class and play bass guitar in church.
Directions to the church are: Go Hwy.29 towards Athens go right past Madison County towing and take a right on Clegehorne Rd.the church is the first church on the left(a little white church)come as you are if you want to wear a dress you can but we have some women that wear pants? We don't dwell on what you wear it's what's in your heart that matters. I guess you could say we are a casual church.We teach and preach from the King James Bible and everyone is Welcome even some of these people on here that want to come to my church and sleep?We don't be have no dance team but we are a Bible Preaching church.Our preacher even preaches on WJJC in Commerce.O.h.the preacher is The Rev.Robert Garrett
Hope to see you Sunday,
David

#19.1.1 Zaverage on 06/01/09 at 01:12 PM [Reply]

I totally concur. The churches do have great power, especially those with charismatic speakers. We would do well to always keep up with our Word time and meditative time with the Spirit. I have been at Compass for 5 years now. My eldest was just baptized. Of course, we keep our spritutal life balanced, spending actual time with God, which is key, for any member of the body. I will reiterate that I think we are fortunate to have a diverse choice of churches to meet the needs of all. Many miss the mark, for whatever reason, but we have options and most find a Home, eventually - thank goodness.

#19.1.1.1 David in Comer on 06/02/09 at 07:00 AM [Reply]

Well God is not the author of confussion so if you like Compass you go there. It don't matter what church you go to or where if you are happy then that's where you need to be? We have the freedom to choose what church we attend so each person needs to find a church they like and go there.

#19.2 Zaverage on 06/01/09 at 09:03 AM [Reply]

Hey all - could we "Christians" please behave as such and not bash each others' churches? I had to clear the air and say that Compass does NOT serve "anything" to drink, unless free coffee on Sunday morning qualifies. In fact, Compass hosts a very successful recovery program. It is a very accepting church, not rejecting or judging anyone for their outward appearance (the lost arrive in all sorts of apparrel!). Sure, the tone might be such that it is not for everyone, but I do not see that slandering the place is in order. Literally hundreds have found a connection to Christ just this year. So, it is reaching some, maybe not in the traditional way. It's a wonderul thing about living here. There are so many churches, we each should be able to find somewhere to call home, so long as God is in it. Peace, Z

#19.2.1 David in Comer on 06/01/09 at 10:57 AM [Reply]

Well you go to it then but I'll stay where I am. I have seen to many churches like COMPASS on the surface they look good and appealing but they change your opinions into theirs a little at a time? You may no know it at first but a year later you will be a changed person and not for the better. I'm not saying that's what COMPASS is but alot of these fly by night churches that pop up are?

#20 maxsportz on 05/29/09 at 09:29 PM [Reply]

Amazing how a little religious article caused a great deal of "fighting" over who is right. Jesus who be displeased I imagine.

#20.1 Madison County Resident on 05/30/09 at 05:13 PM [Reply]

maxsportz you say it's amazing how a relegious article could cause so much fighting and God is not happy with it? Well that is a sign of the times there has always been fighting over religion and there always will be until the Lord comes back. I think Mr.Ingram knew this when he wrote this letter.He knew it would start a fuss. But everyone has there own opinion of how church should be? I counted 20 different opinions just right here.Everyone could be right or wrong it's their opinon.

#21 Elaine on 06/02/09 at 09:31 AM [Reply]

All I know is that I don't like Compass Church. I used to go there when Jim Carpenter first open it and it was wonderful but then later in the years things have really change. I know my son got lots of friends at school and I hear some says I baptize and it's feels so good. Well why are they still using bad words. I saw Jim one time didn't know him and he knew me which he change and I still looks the same why did he dye his hair and little spike. Don't preacher fix their hair neat like the 60's? I know one thing Jim was trying to get somebody from different church to come and show them how we played music and he didn't go. All I know when I went to Compass I feel like I got 6-7 hearts at one time I guess it's the vibrate can't hear God's words but can hear and feel the music.

#21.1 David in Comer on 06/02/09 at 11:46 AM [Reply]

Yes I have heard that from alot of folks? I guess he dyed his hair and spiked it because he wants to look young and hip to attract some of the younger folks that haven't been around as long and seen as much as we have. I have been it churches where they put on the show of being healed. This one church I went to I saw this man down the Rd.at the store walking around talking and there was nothing wrong with him but then 2 hours later he came in the church in a wheel chair.I was like huh and he said he wanted to be healed so he could walk again because he had been in that wheel chair for over 10 years. The preacher said his little speach and said you are healed and this is no lie the man jumped up and started running around saying he had been healed. I walked out right then. I know it CAN happen but don't put on the show that it happen when it didn't?
That's why now I pretty much know the churches that really love the Lord and the ones that play church? There is still some good churches out there but they are getting few and far between.

#22 Bethany on 06/02/09 at 03:20 PM [Reply]

I grew up in a VERY conservative church. We didn't clap, we didn't dance, we only sang traditional hymns and stuff by Ron Hamilton, we only used the KJV, and we all dressed very conservatively. I went to that church for about 19 years. When I moved to GA, I started going to a similar church, but they were a little looser, which I liked, it just took some getting used to. After a while I started going to Joy Baptist Church, and anyone that has gone there knows that they are a church that likes to clap and raise their hands if the Spirit moves (or if they just want to show off). I left for family reasons, and now I attend Anchor Bible Church, which my uncle is the pastor of. We're a very small, very informal church. We don't actually have a church building to meet in, so we meet at Busy Box daycare center. The owners are members of our church, and they are very gracious in letting us use the buildings.
Anyway, my point is that people can learn a new way to praise God. Just because you grew up always doing things one way doesn't mean that's the only way you can do them. People that meet in a primitive church are not better than people who meet and clap and dance. We are all equal in the eyes of God and He loves us all the same! It makes me very sad to see so much arguing and anger over something like church. This is not an issue to snap at each other just because we disagree on how to worship our Lord. Times are hard enough without people losing their tempers over the issue of church!

#23 Anonymous on 06/02/09 at 04:17 PM [Reply]

I went to a local church and they clapped, but they all clapped out of rhythm...Scaaary! Seems like they were all related, too.

#23.1 David in Comer on 06/05/09 at 08:38 AM [Reply]

Ha ha You just so dang funny. The Bible says make a joyful noise unto the Lord not be in rhythm.To the Lord it sounds good.

#24 1911A1 on 06/05/09 at 08:41 AM [Reply]

I dreamed I had passed away and was greeted by St. Peter in Heaven, who was kind enough to offer me a quick tour. He led me up one corridor and down another, and there were large rooms like banquet halls with doors wide open.

"Look," Peter exclaimed as I peered in one room and saw a great crowd enjoying a game of Bingo, "this is where the Catholics have Bingo games every night. All are welcome."

As we continued down the hall, I caught wind of this wonderful symphony of smells. Peter explained, "The Methodists hold a covered dish dinner in this room every evening. All are welcome."

And so it went as we continued the tour, Peter showing me rooms where celebration was continuous - Moravians and their music, the Amish tilling fertile fields by hand, Lutherans listening to great scholarly sermons - and I marvelled at the unity in the body of Christ for which I had so often prayed during my lifetime.

Finally we came to a room on another hall where the doors were closed. St. Peter put his finger to his lips and began to tiptoe past the room, motioning for me to do the same. When we had put a fair distance behind us, I finally asked him, "Brother, why did we have to sneak past that room?" He replied, "That's the room where the Baptists stay, and they think they're the only ones here."

Think about it.

#24.1 David in Comer on 06/05/09 at 04:20 PM [Reply]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Stop it you gonna make me pee on myself NNNNOOOOOOOTTTTTT You ain't funny No not even a little bit You must be a Catholic??????

#25 Elaine on 06/05/09 at 06:06 PM [Reply]

Oh my god just by looking at that David in Comer just made me laughed and I'm like what the heck is he laughing about then I read it. He's funny and crazy. You are the only one that can make me laugh and I needed alot of laughing. Hope you didn't pee on yourself.. My gosh my cheek hurt for smiling so hard about you silly. Gotta meet you I bet you're funny in person are you a redneck like my dad?? Who are you?? I don't know no David in Comer.

#26 Bethany on 06/19/09 at 03:22 PM [Reply]

I think David in Comer shouldn't be allowed to comment on here anymore. He's just stiring up trouble and making tempers flare.

#26.1 David in Comer on 06/21/09 at 12:37 PM [Reply]

Bethany this is the O P I N I O N S part and I post my opnion just like you just did? Ain't America great? That's one of my rights as an American? I can say what ever I want.
Also have you ever made soup?? You have to stir the pot.

#27 Elaine on 06/20/09 at 05:42 PM [Reply]

Bethany, if you don't like what David in Comer is saying then there's an x on the top right corner and bring the mouse to it and click it so log off.

#27.1 Bethany on 06/30/09 at 10:09 AM [Reply]

Elaine, I am simply trying to bring a little harmony to a CHURCH discussion. All I see on here from him is anger and hatred. And I'm starting to see it from you, dearie.

#27.1.1 Elaine on 06/30/09 at 10:51 AM [Reply]

Bethany, I know but what good will that do us all? I have seen so many ugly comments on all kinds of news. All I can say is let people says what they got to say. Even if they are mad or not let the anger out. What goes around comes around and I do believe that. It's just that whatever we say no matter what they will always have something to say right back at you. You are more welcome to email me swdjj@windstream.net

#27.1.2 David in Comer on 06/30/09 at 11:43 AM [Reply]

Ok Bethany that's it I am done with this story after I say this. Are you a born again Christian? I know I am and if you are? What are we fussing about? You worship your way and I will worship my way.I'm not saying one way is right and the other is wrong? All Christian should have the same goal? That is to get to heaven. I was just saying I wasn't brought up that way.If we had started dancing in church my pastor would have showed us the door.If you want to watch it or do it that's fine by me?
Christians are the only people who will tear each other down and then go in church and sing "O how I love Jesus" you don't see sinners doing that to each other? There is not only one way to worship the Lord?

#27.1.2.1 member of a great bible teaching church ! on 07/01/09 at 06:51 AM [Reply]

THE GOAL IS TO GET INTO HEAVEN ????????? I THINK NOT..... JESUS WANTS US TO LEARN TO LOVE HIM AS MUCH AS HE LOVES US THATS THE GOAL !!! TO DO IT JUST TO GET INTO HEAVEN WOULD BE A VERY SELFISH THING if Jesus asked me to go into hell for a thousnd years to do a job for him then i would gladly do so (not that he would ) however he does ask that his followers witness for him and that can be a daunting task too !! the goal is LOVE !! and the reward is everlasting life weather it be in heaven or antwhere else is up to him in which i follow !

#27.1.2.1.1 Madison County Resident on 07/01/09 at 01:29 PM [Reply]

So the goal it to go to Hell? We as Christians are to strive everyday to be more like Jesus? And let me ask you a question? What is the end result Christians are supposed to strive for? You can love everybody here and live a perfect life and still die and go to Hell? If you don't get saved and ask the Lord to come in your heart. Hell is full of good natured people?

#27.1.2.1.1.1 member of a great bible teaching church on 07/02/09 at 11:48 AM [Reply]

can you see the love here ???

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 5:1,9,18,19 KJV

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: according to the riches of his grace; wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence.

Ephesians 1:3,4,7,8 KJV

as your pastor what the goal is !!! i'm sure its not to be selfish..... if your only doing the things jesus asked to get to heaven then your on the wrong track!! you do them because you love him as much as he loves you!!! enough to die for !!

#27.1.2.1.1.1.1 Madison County Resident on 07/02/09 at 12:50 PM [Reply]

can't see no love from you. But what I was trying to say was. You can love everyone here on Earth,and obey everything the Bible says and still die and go to HELL. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and hell is full of GOOD people?
You take Ted Turner and all the money he has he could give it all away for God's work and live the perfect life the rest of his days and when he dies he will go to hell if he hasn't got saved before he died?
You can't get to heaven by what you do? You get there by faith not by works?

#27.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 member of a great bible teaching church on 07/02/09 at 01:26 PM [Reply]

okay look salvation is the only way to get to heaven right ?? salvation is accepting christ as your saviour !! you will not go to hell if you have done this (truly done it ) jesus died for our sins.. all of them not some! if you are truly saved you can not sin your way out of heaven ( if you are truly saved you wouldn't anyway ) christ died for our sins he covered them all.... the ones we did before knowing him and the ones we do after comming to know him ( all men will sin saved or not its a inherited trait ) so that being said if you are saved then you will go to heaven also if you are saved you will love jesus as much as he loves you if your only doing the christian thing to get to heaven then as i said before your on the wrong track ! your thinking about you and not him who died for you !

#27.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 Madison County Resident on 07/02/09 at 02:42 PM [Reply]

O.k. let me ask you a question member of a great Bible teaching church? You say if you truely get saved sin won't keep you out of heaven? Lets say you really got saved as a child and you get back in the world and start drinking,stealing,lieing,cheatibg on your spouse,beating your spouse,and you turn Gay and leave your spouse and one day you go in a bank to rob it and you shoot and kill 10 people in the process and while making your getaway you drop dead of a heart attack. Where do you think your soul is going?
Are you saying there is NO back slidenrs in hell?

#27.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 member of a great bible teaching church on 07/02/09 at 03:47 PM [Reply]

i have to say you bring up a very logical point however yes thats what i'm saying.... jesus is able to save yes even those who in your opinion are not worth going to heaven sin is sin it matters not what type.... it is sin and yes jesus's blood covers them all ! just so you know if the hypothetical kid you wrote about was truly saved the the holy spirt would have convicted this person and he would have not commited such things ( jesus said i will never leave you or forsake you ) once he is with you he is always there so yes even those who you think are not deserving of his grace also get it do your self a favor and don't ever ask god to give you what you deserve !!

#27.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Madison County Resident on 07/02/09 at 05:39 PM [Reply]

Well you raise an intersting point and I agree with some of it but I disagree with some of it? Yes if you are truely saved and you start to do something wrong the Lord will convict you it's wrong but if you still do it anyway DO YOU GET A FREE PASS? I agree with the point that if you are saved you try not to do wrong? But if you get saved that's not a right to go out and sin? We as Christians have to repent daily for the sins we commit? And if you commit a sin and die before you have time to repent YOU will stand in Judgement for that sin?
I am of the Baptist faith and I go to a Baptist church but I don't believe in The once saved always saved as alot of Baptist do. If you commit a sin and repent yes it is covered by the blood but if you keep going out and committing the same sin you didn't really repent because to repent means to turn away from.

#27.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 member of a great bible teaching church on 07/03/09 at 09:00 AM [Reply]

if you go out and commit sin after sin again and again i would have to say your not really saved .... yes repentace is the key in our conversation also its very important to have fellowship with god without this we are open to all the evil one's temptations as a christian we must allow the holy sprit to guide us because our flesh is weak ... we will all face the judgement of our father but thanks be to jesus that those who truly know him and love him can be sure he will commune our sentance and save us from hell in witch we would all deserve the bible says that god will laugh at our calmity ( thats what happens when we know yet do not fear god )Proverbs 1
1The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

8My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

9For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

10My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:

14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:

16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.

18And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.

19So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

20Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

30They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

32For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

#27.1.2.2 Bethany on 07/04/09 at 03:58 PM [Reply]

Yes, I am a Christian. I don't see a need in tearing every single person down that disagrees with you. Yes, we do get to express our opinion on here, but is it glorifying to God to talk down to other people? That question is not just asked of you, but of everyone on this posting.

#27.1.2.2.1 member of a great bible teaching church on 07/05/09 at 04:44 PM [Reply]

no tearing just building up

#27.1.2.2.1.1 Bethany on 07/14/09 at 04:38 PM [Reply]

I'm sorry, but I don't see a lot of building up on this subject. Seems like everyone just wants other people to agree with their point of view and beliefs.

#28 Elaine on 07/02/09 at 09:53 AM [Reply]

Okay let me see um.............I tried to love everybody as much as I can and I don't have a perfect life which I wish I did but I must be happy with what I am and I can still die but I can't tell you that I will go to hell or not even tho I got saved and ask the Lord to come in my heart but I still not sure if I will get to Heaven or not. Because I have sin long after I got saved. No I don't steal or kill people. But I do cuss which I'm sure everybody does that or thinking the word in your mind which is sin too. My husband doesn't cuss but he did couple weeks ago because the blade got his finger and I just looked at him for what he said surprise me. To me what gets me is confusing me. I think it's Revelation 21:4 something about there'll be no more pains, no more tears, let me go get my bible no more death and neither sorrow. Now once you died that's true if you go to Heaven but to me I do feel there's tear, death and pain and I do feel that we all are in Hell as of now I'm talking about right here in this world. I wish I could explain this in good grammar but please let me know how it works and explain that to me. When I'm hurt I cried, there's a death in a family and things like that are we still somewhere in Hell even thuo if I'm a totally Christain or not.

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LETTER: Our churches are no longer churches

MadisonJournalTODAY

LETTER: Our churches are no longer churches

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