Madison County employees will always be able to sue their employers if they feel they’ve been wrongly fired. However, county government employees may soon lose their right to appeal their termination to a personnel hearing officer.
But that change won’t take place without county employees first getting an opportunity to address the BOC on the matter. No date for a meeting with employees has been set.
County commissioners asked county attorney Mike Pruett Thursday to draft a proposed change in the county’s personnel policies that would make all county government posts “at-will” positions. The move would eliminate the “due process” guidelines in the county’s personnel policy, which allow an employee to appeal his dismissal and possibly have it overturned.
County commission chairman Anthony Dove said Madison County’s current personnel policies amount to a “civil service plan.” He added that the personnel policies have been altered numerous times over the years and created considerable confusion.
“I would assume most of the public if you talked to them thinks that we are an ‘at will’ county,” said Dove. “…I can guarantee you that there’s not many, if any, counties in Georgia under a civil service plan at our population. There are cities that are a lot more populated that haven’t got the civil service plan. It’s just not implemented that much because of the problems it creates.”
Commissioners said that they cannot recall any case in which an employee dismissal has been reversed.
“How many of them have used this civil service, personnel, type setup and won?” said Commissioner Stanley Thomas. “It seems like every case that we’ve ever dismissed anybody, they had access to this process and some have tried to use it and we have spun our wheels, and tied up time and caused a lot of confusion, a lot of siding, a lot of disruption, and the end result is that we’re right back where we’re started.”
Employees in offices headed by constitutionally-elected officials — such as the sheriff’s department, tax commissioner’s office, clerk of court, probate judge and magistrate judge — are already “at will” workers, since the elected officials can dismiss employees without any chance for employee appeals.
Meanwhile, other county employees, who work for department heads rather than elected officials, have “due process” rights of appeal. Commissioners said the new arrangement would put every employee in the county under the same personnel policy.
Likewise, Pruett said the current setup doesn’t afford employees as much protection as some may think.
“For all the trouble it creates, the Civil Service system really doesn’t do that much for employees,” said Pruett. “Under the federal law that applies, at least in this area of the country, the law is that a court will not second guess your reasons for firing someone.”
Pruett used the example of absenteeism as a reason for firing.
“If your records are incorrect and the person really wasn’t absent as much as you thought they were, the court will not reverse on that basis,” said Pruett. “They will not look behind your reasoning. The only thing the court will do is make sure you have complied with whatever procedure you set out for the appeal.”
Pruett said that compliance with the appeal procedure is where the dismissal battle is actually waged. He noted a recent dismissed employee who filed numerous Open Records requests with the commissioners’ office.
“That’s where it gets to be a lot of work,” said Pruett. “It creates a ton of work for us to make sure we’ve crossed every ‘T’ and dotted every ‘i’ regarding the procedures, but at the end of the day, the thing the employee is really interested in, the substance of it, is not going to be addressed by the court.”
However, Pruett said that the elimination of the “due process” aspects of the personnel policy in favor of “at will” guidelines would not strip employees of basic rights.
“‘At will’ means that an employee can be disciplined up to and including termination for any reason or no reason but not the wrong reason,” said Pruett. “You still can’t treat people adversely based on race, gender, or protected characteristics. Those federal laws still apply.”
Commissioner John Pethel said the BOC doesn’t intend to fire anyone without a good reason.
“Personally, I would rather it be an ‘at will’ policy, because all county employees are valuable to the county and they’re not going to be fired unless there’s just cause,” said Pethel. “I would prefer it to be at will, if nothing else to save attorneys’ time and court costs. I think it would be better for the board, the county, the citizens and everyone concerned.”
It is well known public knowledge that this is not the case with Sheriff Thomas. His reasons for firing skilled, qualified deputies was purely vindictive, self servant, ego driven because I can attitude. The same reasons for rehiring inexperienced, less than reputable people for leadership positions.
It'd be interesting to hear a thought out, pertinent opinion from you.
an education first then a job!
People of Madison County, it may not seem like a lot to give up, but each time you give up rights of the individual you add to the problem. Letting this group vote on taking away rights of others is tantamount to giving the prisoners the key to the jail.
I voted for Dove and think he has good ideas in some regards, but I see him slowly making moves and streamlining procedures that increase his power and scope of responsibility.
One must ask why they feel the appeal process for disciplinary actions needs to be eliminated.
Foolishly, Mr Pethel says : “Personally, I would rather it be an ‘at will’ policy, because all county employees are valuable to the county and they’re not going to be fired unless there’s just cause,” said Pethel. “I would prefer it to be at will, if nothing else to save attorneys’ time and court costs. I think it would be better for the board, the county, the citizens and everyone concerned.”
Get real Mr Pethel, if you had a family and small children to feed and clothe and losing your job for an unfair reason, due to trumped up charges, meant everything to them, you would fight it like you were fighting for your life. You want to eliminate any appeal you might have? Do you really think people believe that?
Your statement about your not firing anyone without cause makes a lot of sense if YOU are the person who determines cause. Do you think the person you just fired would agree there was cause?
The county employee system was so loose that it allowed one to 'give' sick days to another person - a benefit, not something you own and could "give" to another - and now you come back such a unfair and mot likely illegal proposal as this.
So, any employee who is fired for some reason that isn't true, will still be able to sue. They are eliminating the "appeal." And apply your logic to the appeal procedure. Do you really think the same commissioner or commissioners who fired you for no good reason is going to change their ways at a useless "appeal?"
It IS without question a waste of the tax payers money and hard working Madison County Government employees time. People always seem to be so interested in the tax payers money and the rights of the county employees. COMMON SENSE, without your OWN selfish agenda, should tell you this is a great idea..
There are laws that protect employees for wrongful termination. It DOES NOT have to be Madison County Government policy..
This is the reason that there "SHOULD" be an appeals process.
ALL employees should be able to appeal since the above quote has been very much the situation w/ Sheriff Thomas. Ms. Watson vs. Epps cost the taxpayers for this reason also. Let the Dept. heads still hire but allow an appeal process. NOT an appeals board of BOC but one of unbiased individuals. WHO? Maybe local "reputable" business owners, teachers, counselors,attorneys,taxpayers. Advertise and let Dept. heads or senior employees vote them in. There's no connection to the BOC.
So, you still have the option you had all along and the only option that would give you any satisfaction IF you actually have a case you can win (doubt it).
All the commissioners are doing is eliminating the absolute waste of time that was an "appeal of termination" that basically served as a terminated employee's opportunity to bad-mouth and slander other county workers without having to face any consequences. In court, if they present such false testimony, there will be very serious consequences. So eliminating the appeal and getting the people who are SERIOUS that they have actually been WRONGFULLY AND ILLEGALLY TERMINATED into COURT is an excellent move and good for the morale of the rest of employees who don't have to read a bunch of lies about them in the paper after the terminated employee has their "public rant session" heretofore mistakenly referred to as an "appeal of termination."
If you've been wronged, shut up and go to court. Otherwise, just shut up, get your act together, and try to get another job and do better next time. Spare the people who attend meetings to conduct county business from your rant. Save your rant for court...if you actually have a case.