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LETTER: No reason to fear separation of church and state

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Letter to the Editor

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Sunday, November 15. 2009

Comments (10)

Dear Editor:

Unless the Madison County Journal has made an error, it seems the Hudgens’ have made a glaring oversight in their collection of historical documents, which were accepted by the county to be displayed in the government complex building. I haven’t had time to go there to view the collection, but where is the Preamble to the United States Constitution? I memorized it in fifth grade and still remember it now, 50 years later.

“We, the people of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

It doesn’t mention anything about religion and I wonder if it was left out (if, indeed, it was) for that reason. Our National Motto has had many alterations over the years since the founding of our nation, particularly during the War of 1812 and during our own Civil War, usually in response to claiming to be on the side of right (as in the Christian Crusades). Our current National Motto, “In God we trust,” was established in 1957 in response to the Communist Cold War. Communists were considered atheists, therefore we felt the need to establish clearly that Americans were not.

Commissioner Bruce Scogin’s insensitive comment that some day we all “may have to side-step a Buddha statue” failed to consider the growing number of Americans who constantly “have to side-step” Christian crosses, Christian churches around every corner, our money, our pledge of allegiance, our national anthem, the Bible in oath-taking and on and on, not to mention the impossibility of holding public office without proclaiming a Christian faith, whether true or not. He was rightly concerned that the inclusion of the Ten Commandments and the National Motto might be construed as promoting religion. He was smart to question the legalities of this on behalf of the county.

Our fundamental separation of church and state and the guarantee of religious freedom are historical ideas that seem to leave room for everyone as long as we all obey our basic civil laws. As Mr. Scogin suggested, there’s nothing to be afraid of.

Sincerely,

Virginia Moss

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#1 D.R. on 11/15/09 at 11:26 AM [Reply]

Virginia Moss,
If you do not like the Christian beliefs that this country was founded on you have several options. You may participate in any religion you want, you are not forced to be a Christian. It is a choice. You may move to another country that better suits your beliefs. Christianity is not forced on anyone, but that is what this country was founded on. You don't have to like it, you just have to realize it is part of the framework of this country.

#1.1 D.G. on 11/16/09 at 07:13 AM [Reply]

Nice response D.R. Real...Christian example?

#1.2 Anonymous on 11/16/09 at 08:37 AM [Reply]

Uh, yeah. Go back to college and take a history class instead of getting your version of history from a radio talk show host.

#1.3 Billy on 11/16/09 at 10:18 AM [Reply]

This country was founded by people leaving for freedom of religion and buy what you are telling people that you have to be a Christian or just deal with there persecution. Have you ever walked around and told a Christian you had a different faith than they do you would think you slapped there mamma. Church and state do not mix it didn't for the founders of this country and it should not for us. People take there faith to far and once you bring it up any place everyone wants to tell how right they are. Of course everyone else it wrong.

#2 Are you kidding? on 11/16/09 at 06:47 AM [Reply]

I LOVE HISTORY! I have an idea "Separation between Church and State" quoters! READ! Read the letters between Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin concerning Separation between Church and State. They were not talking about how you cannot have religion, pray in schools, Ten Commandments on the wall, etc. They were talking about the early colonial days. Ben Franklin said "The man who stands in the pulpit on Sunday, should not be the same man who sits on the bench on Monday." In other words, think Spanish Inquisition... The Pastor (Church) should not be the Judge (State) because then the local church would also be the civil law body. Imagine a world where if one man thought you were wrong for doing (insert your favorite vice here) you were guilty. "Burn the Witch!" Sound familiar? “So she floats? Must be a witch!”, See that freckle on her hip? Must be a Witch!” A pious old woman (nevermind that she is a jealous gossip) says that woman is a witch? Must be a Witch! Our Founding Fathers did not want religious preference to be a factor in civil/criminal law matters. They had seen what religious fervor could become in the wrong hands. They were VERY familiar with "Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my lords, that where laws end, tyranny begins." because it was spoken by William Pitt (as in Pittsburgh PA) in 1770; he was a contemporary of our Founding Fathers. If that quote sounds familiar it is because it is the founding statement for: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
God Bless America! A country founded on the RIGHT of everyone of us to be FREE to believe in what we want, and not have to FEAR that we can be punished for it. I am happy to know that I can pray wherever and whenever I want! God Bless everyone who reads this message. Don't want to be blessed by my God? Then this doesn't apply to you! See how FREE that was? Good day to ya'll!

#3 Bill on 11/16/09 at 08:17 AM [Reply]

D.R., "Christianity is what this country is founded on" you wrote. I got news for you, NO IT'S NOT! Please, educate yourself and read some history of the United States and it's founders. If you don't like this idea, than you move to another country.

#4 Yabbut on 11/16/09 at 01:05 PM [Reply]

First of all, I like your idea of including the Preamble in the collection. The significance of the Constitution seems to escape most politicians and Americans in general these days.

Ms. Harris, you seem to agree that Christianity has been historically and is currently the predominant religion in the U.S. I would argue that that fact is behind the tolerance of other religions in American society. If you examine other countries where Islam, Hinduism,Judaism, or Buddhism are the major religions, they typically are not so tolerant of others with different beliefs.

My primary concern is that those in the minority too often are allowed to dictate the rules for all to follow. Not allowing the Ten Commandments or a cross to be displayed on public property, for example, seems a bit unreasonable, don't you think?

#4.1 Billy on 11/16/09 at 07:49 PM [Reply]

I wish the Ten Commandments were not so unreasonable however, most none christians are harassed enough in this country to have to go to a government building and see someone else's religion posted on the wall.

If you can't smoke in a government building or carry a gun nor should you be allowed to post religious material of any type. It is not needed put it on your house on your car where ever you want but, keep it out of our government buildings. It gives the example that our government is like a lot of christians, intolerant.

You stated we don't have the same problems as other countries but, we do tell a baptist that you are of the catholic religion or any other religion boy boy you will be in for a ear full.

#5 Sardonic Veracity on 11/17/09 at 10:04 AM [Reply]

Christian church es around every corner has nothing to do with a separation of church and state. The national anthem does not mention God. A statement about sidestepping a Buddha statue in a collection of US historical documents is not insensitive inasmuch as it has a faulty premise. Communists were not only considered to be athiests, it was against the laws of the USSR to follow any religion except the one set forth by Marx and Lenin. Communism is anti any type of higher power.

In response to "Billy," if you feel strongly enough about your "other belief" to walk around telling Christians about it, why shouldn't those Christians feel strongly enough to tell you how they feel? If you metapphorically slap there (sic) mamma, should they not, in turn, slap yours back? People are entitled to their beliefs... people are also entitled to rebut your assertions.

While I am on Billy, what about the ten commandments are so unreasonable? Is it the part about being with someone else's wife or is it the lying and stealing and murdering part that you take issue with? I know, totally unreasonable expectations there. I can see, that when you equate smoking or carrying a gun to the ten commandments that you have a firm grip on logic.

Freedom of religion, sadly for some, doesn't mean freedom FROM religion. The Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establisment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..." This has been construed to mean all govermnent entities and actions. I have not researched the case law fully, but I believe that a complaintant would have trouble excluding documents of a historical nature that express religious tones in a collection such as a museum that is in a government building in Madison County, GA. Even "if" Judeo-Christian ideas were not part of the original framers of the US law system, they were part of the growth of the settlements that became Madison County and have resulted in the place where we live today. Religion has a place in any collection of local history. As evidence, may I direct you to our "Christian churches around every corner."

#5.1 BOB on 11/28/09 at 11:45 PM [Reply]

You just have a better way with words than I do. I am not against christians. I am not against anyone. I loved your statement and it was well put.

P.S. I don't smoke or Drink I just get filled with rage and I was not given the gift of words you were. Everything you said was very well said. I just hope a lot of people agree with you.

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