LETTER: Let’s start the ‘Fed Up’ party and institute fair tax

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Monday, August 9. 2010

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Dear Editor:

I favor forming a new political party to be known as FED-UP. (Not to be confused with a merger between Federal Express and United Parcel Service).

My idea of supporting a politician has never been based on one idea he supported or opposed. However, this has changed. I will support any politician if he whole-heartedly supports the Fair Tax. This change is, I believe, the most important move we could make to help save this great country. Representatives to a national convention could organize and spell out the actions needed for Constitutional changes.

Just think! No tax forms to fill out by April 15. You would get all of your pay with no withholding of income tax, social security tax, medicare tax, or unemployment tax. And you would receive a prebate each year. What could be better? April 15 would be just another lovely spring day.

As a 90-year-old businessman, retired military, and full-fledged American, I would like to see action now.

Sincerely,

O. Wendell Pickle

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#1 Anonymous on 08/09/10 at 07:37 AM [Reply]

Great idea! No military, no police or fire protection, no schools! No mail delivery! We'll privatize it all and pledge allegiance to the corporations!

Hungry people won't stay hungry for long!

#1.1 MSt on 08/12/10 at 10:34 AM [Reply]

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Ever consider that 23% is a good rate to use to figure net pay thanks to deductions from paychecks? Probably not. That's why the hit and run.

#2 Ben Had on 08/09/10 at 09:18 AM [Reply]

It's good to see that a 90 year old businessman still has hope.

I assume your "Fair Tax" is referring to a National Sales Tax system? Good ol' common sense,but it will never happen.

Because...
Although rich folks pay some taxes,it's nowhere near the amount they would have to pay if a Consumption Tax were imposed.

Rich folks contribute serious money to political campaigns to make sure their tax burden stays comfortable. Todays' highest rates (36 percent)don't come close to to the rates paid in the past,which have been as high as 70 percent during the Nixon thru Carter years,and even 94 percent during the Eisenhower presidency. We won't be going back to those days anytime soon.

John Linder gave lip service to the Fair Tax idea,but just to get elected. He didn't move it forward an inch.

#3 Bill on 08/09/10 at 11:54 AM [Reply]

O. Wendell Pickle, just think! No more paying just 7% Georgia tax on everything! We will pay 30% or more! Yea! You know, the flat tax will never work. Does anybody remember when the top 5% of income earners paid about 70% on taxes? That was not that long ago. Now what do they pay? Really pay. After all the loopholes, tax breaks, etc it seems that they are not paying their "fair tax". How about the corporations? Let's close some tax loophole and tax breaks for them and please don't say that if we don't they will take their manufacturing overseas because most of them has already or have their headquarters on the coast of America so therefore they don't have to pay taxes. Another example is Walmart (the Red China money changer), Walmart is ALWAYS given tax breaks to move into an area. Most of the time after the tax break expires, Walmart moves somewhere else out of the area. How about if NO COUNTY gave them a tax break, where would the move to sell their junk? The same place they are now and the county would receive the taxes from them. I agree that the present tax laws should be changed but maybe be changed to stop helping the corporations. Also Mr. Pickle, we are already taxed on EVERYTHING so why increase taxes on the things we buy? I don't know about you but paying around $3 for a loaf of bread is difficult for me, with flat tax it will be more like $4 or more. Is that fair?

#3.1 MSt on 08/12/10 at 06:03 PM [Reply]

"O. Wendell Pickle, just think! No more paying just 7% Georgia tax on everything! We will pay 30% or more! Yea!"

If it is new, yes. And you will be able to by it with money that hasn't already been taxed through payroll deductions. Can you do that now?

By the way, assuming your argument is true, (Surprise!) welcome to the cost of government. Of the 300 million americans, only 47% file taxes. Of that percentage, even a smaller percentage is "the rich" who are responsible for making up the majority of the roughly $3 trillion in revenue. It is easy to jump onto the "soak it to the rich" bandwagon in the hopes that they will pay for everything and that money can be voted from them in your favor. Is that truly fair? A poor man hiring another man means that there will be TWO men begging. (How do I know? I am poor.) I don't believe anyone deserves to have their money taken away from them just because they "are rich." I personally know people from my little home town who started out dirt poor and have managed to do what we all want to do; live the American dream. Should we out of bitterness, anger, envy or greed take that away from them just because they "made it?" I don't. No matter the romanticizations, Robin Hood was still a thief. I wouldn't want to have that happen to me solely because I've managed to live my dreams; neither would you. Right?

"You know, the flat tax will never work. Does anybody remember when the top 5% of income earners paid about 70% on taxes? That was not that long ago. Now what do they pay? Really pay."

Yep. Wasn't that in the days of $2 an hour wages and the gas shortage?

"...After all the loopholes, tax breaks, etc it seems that they are not paying their "fair tax".

Here's an idea that will make you happy. We eliminate ALL those loopholes. If income isn't taxed, there's no need for loopholes. Since "the rich" (the top 5%) account for 37% of consumer purchases, they will be taxed. (http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/110258/us-economy-is-increasingly-tied-to-the-rich ) Also, under the Fair Tax, brokerage fees are taxed.

"How about the corporations? Let's close some tax loophole and tax breaks for them and please don't say that if we don't they will take their manufacturing overseas because most of them has already or have their headquarters on the coast of America so therefore they don't have to pay taxes."

I agree. Again, the Fair Tax closes those loopholes. How? Those much hated loopholes are there because of the income tax. Eliminate the income tax and the loopholes are eliminated. Change the basis of the tax. Instead of taxing income and taking away EVERYONES money (payroll deductions...remember?), tax sales (and end the taxing of earning, savings and investments; items a poor man will need to move up) I remember a study or poll in which 500 companies replied that, that if the Fair Tax was enacted, they would move either their corporate offices here, their manufacturing facities here, or both. (When I find the source again, I will post it) If our income tax system was the reason (by your words) for their leaving, imagine what would happen if we eliminate the reason for their leaving.

"Another example is Walmart (the Red China money changer), Walmart is ALWAYS given tax breaks to move into an area."

Let me get this straight...China (a "communist" country) giving an American (capitalist country with the second plank of the "Communist Manifesto" as their source of revenue) company tax breaks? Go "meditate" on that one a while.

Better yet, eliminate the penalties that made those companies decide to leave and allow them to come home. When they do, they will need employees. Employees who will receive their full paychecks and be unpenalized for saving or investing. (Yes, the poor are not ignorant or lazy and we do invest if/when given the opportunity)

"Most of the time after the tax break expires, Walmart moves somewhere else out of the area. How about if NO COUNTY gave them a tax break, where would the move to sell their junk? The same place they are now and the county would receive the taxes from them."

So why not become the ONLY country in the world that does not have an income tax and maybe be THE country to which all other companies want to relocate. Or would that not be FAIR compared to our present system which has American companies leaving? Remember what I've already written?

"I agree that the present tax laws should be changed but maybe be changed to stop helping the corporations. Also Mr. Pickle, we are already taxed on EVERYTHING so why increase taxes on the things we buy?"

Good, I agree as well. Remember those deductions from paychecks? Everything you buy now the cost of the income tax built into the price of the product. (at a minimum, roughly 7.5 - 15.6% depending on employee/self employed and assuming no other taxes apply) Is it an increase when the Fair Tax removes the payroll deductions and the taxing of income, provides a prebate up to the poverty level, and, with the elimination of those deductions (eliminating some of the reason for the price), gives everyone a pay raise?

"I don't know about you but paying around $3 for a loaf of bread is difficult for me, with flat tax it will be more like $4 or more. Is that fair?"

See above.

#3.2 MSt on 08/12/10 at 06:55 PM [Reply]

Just so we are clear... unlike the income tax, the Fair tax taxes new products ONCE, not year after year. Yes, services are taxed. Why tax everything? If for no other reason, products and services provide the most stable base for taxation. Everyone buys something and there are services everyone uses. Services now make up a large portion of our economy. However, there are products and services the rich use that, due to limited income, those with lower incomes do not use and would be taxed.

#4 Lynn on 08/09/10 at 06:56 PM [Reply]

I am a retired teacher. I taught Economics for 25 years. The "so-called" Fair Tax is a tax INCREASE for average, working class people. There is NOTHING fair about it. It is only another tax break for wealthy people.

#4.1 CitizenJane on 08/11/10 at 03:30 PM [Reply]

Like tk said, if you are against it, you're ignorant about it. www.fairtax.org:

The FairTax:

Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Allows American products to compete fairly
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Abolishes the IRS

And, you can calculate the difference for yourself:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=calculator

#4.2 MSt on 08/12/10 at 07:55 PM [Reply]

Come out with the critics you've read on the web. I'll come out with the answers. (Most, if not all, can be found at fairtax.org)

#5 CitizenJane on 08/10/10 at 03:20 AM [Reply]

Right on, Ms. Pickle! I wholeheartedly agree with you!

#6 tk on 08/10/10 at 09:59 AM [Reply]

I'm with you on the Fair Tax. Anyone who is opposed to it has not read the book. It is the only fair way to tax. Everyone pays!

#7 GALearner on 08/10/10 at 09:11 PM [Reply]

The fair tax is not an answer as it can be manipulated to benefit various groups. Raising the minimum and increasing the rate benefits the poor...except that businesses increase price of products and sheds workers. Lowering the minimum and maintaining the rate increases taxes on the low income people with little positive increase in jobs. And heaven forbid...politicians undoubtedly would find new ways to skew the system even though the basic rate mechanism is retained.

It is unlikely that the touted tax workers would be reduced in number. Don't know how, but perhaps the unions would demand payment for non-work.

#8 tomlapalm on 08/11/10 at 09:34 AM [Reply]

Ignorance is not only bliss, its catching. Corporations don't pay taxes now . You pay their taxes. Every time you buy milk or bread you contribute to every companies tax bill. Each one that that touches the product to get it to you. You pay it. It already there in the selling price. Instead of collecting taxes from every company and you, it is collected in one place, the retailer. If you don't want to pay, don't buy. If you want to spend millions on a wedding, spend away, it pays taxes. Every tourist, drug dealer,illegal immigrant or foreign buyer of U.S. goods will pay the tax that you are paying now as income tax. How is this a bad deal?

#9 tk on 08/11/10 at 09:41 AM [Reply]

Great idea "Fair Tax". If you are against it, you haven't read the book.Everybody pays!

#10 teacher on 08/11/10 at 04:56 PM [Reply]

I adamantly approve of the Fair Tax. Those comments deriding it are being made by authors who are ignorant of the benefits, and therefore those who wrote them are to be pitied. Ignorance is not bliss.

For the record, I am paid by the government, so I would suffer should those dire predictions come to pass.

The Fair Tax is fair because everyone pays, and the poor get their taxes back due to the prebate provision.

Education is the only antidote to ignorance, so supporters of the Fair Tax, speak up!

#10.1 Ben Had on 08/11/10 at 07:45 PM [Reply]

Good idea,but it will never happen.

I just read that a woman in Connecticut spent $25 million to win the Republican primary race for Senator there. $20 million of it was her own cash.
The job pays about $175,000 a year.
It will take her about 115 years just to break even,if she gets the job. It was just the primary.

Somebody with that kind of money would be insane to vote for the Fair Tax.
Never Happen.

#10.1.1 MSt. on 08/15/10 at 11:00 AM [Reply]

"Somebody with that kind of money would be insane to vote for the Fair Tax.
Never Happen. "

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

#10.1.1.1 Ben Had on 08/18/10 at 06:05 AM [Reply]

You answered your on question, "the top 5% in income account for 37% of total consumer spending."

Do the math. How much taxes would be paid on a $20 million boat(yacht)? $700,000? One purchase like that would be more than they pay now after deductions.

If they(rich people) decided to not buy things in order to save money, the economy would sink even lower,and more jobs would be lost.

Tax deductions for the Rich and Corporations creates jobs,higher taxes kill the incentives to spend.
Elementary.

#11 Anonymous on 08/12/10 at 12:17 PM [Reply]

Everybody doesn't pay with Fair Tax. We need Hair Tax! With Hair Tax EVERYBODY pays.

#11.1 MSt on 08/12/10 at 03:41 PM [Reply]

To the contrary, everyone DOES pay under the Fair Tax and "the rich" will pay since the top 5% account in income account for 37% of total consumer spending. (http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/110258/us-economy-is-increasingly-tied-to-the-rich) The prebate keeps those on the lower end of the income scale from paying up to poverty level.

#11.2 MSt on 08/12/10 at 07:34 PM [Reply]

Wanna compare that with the income tax? All those deductions...Warren Buffet (wasn't it?) paying less than his secretary?

#12 Sardonic Veracity on 08/14/10 at 07:18 PM [Reply]

To heck with the "fair tax"... I don't want to pay! If your big call to arms is "everybody pays!" then.. uh, I'm not for it! You can pay. Duh.

#12.1 MSt on 08/15/10 at 10:48 AM [Reply]

You're right. Instead, let's keep the income tax, shift the the entire burden of $ 3 + trillion dollar revenue on, say, less than a hundred people and call it fair. (Welcome to the cost of big government)

Let's not forget the "Top Ten Civil Liberties Abuses of the Income Tax" ( http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0204-2.html)

#12.1.1 Sardonic Veracity on 08/16/10 at 02:45 PM [Reply]

Fair, schmair. If I wanted "fairness," I'd have voted for Obama!

If you want an alternate idea, let's trim that outrageous "burden." The "evil rich" have put politicians in place who have inflated the budget. What's more fair than having them pay for it?

#12.1.1.1 Ben Had on 08/18/10 at 06:41 AM [Reply]

I like your Obama jab. Here's something for you Fox News drones to consider;
The Teasury Secretary for Mr. Bush was the former Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs. He left his multi million dollar job with them to insure the $700 billion aid package would be delivered,and it was.

How did the American tax payer benefit from this deal? We didn't, not one red cent! They gave themselves millions in bonuses and went on lavish trips with our money.
Did they start loaning money-NO!

Where's the outrage? Where is the Fox News coverage of this?
Obama bailed out the Unions,which saved jobs.
Bush gave 700 billion to his contributors and bosses,and we got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for it!

ps. Goldman Sachs became Obamas' #1 private contributor once it was clear that he would win. $1 million plus. Now they own him too.

Funny though. They said he was a Muslim. They said he wasn't even a citizen of our country. They said he was a Socialist,and he still got elected! What does that say about the Republicans? Or, Fox News?

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LETTER: Let’s start the ‘Fed Up’ party and institute fair tax

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