Madison Oglethorpe Animal Shelter board members speak with BOC

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Monday, February 13. 2012

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The Madison Oglethorpe Animal Shelter has long been in dire financial straits. And county commissioners want to see some reports on those finances before they commit to providing more funding to the shelter.

Four new shelter board members stood before the BOC Feb. 6 and spoke about the need for the county and the shelter to work together. They presented the board with a packet with an accountant’s summary of finances.

“We appreciate the opportunity to stand here and let you know that we’re interested in opening up a dialogue and hope to provide commissioners with information they need in order to help us comply with the 2010 Census figures,” said Michelle Kaye, adding that the board understands the need to be fiscally transparent.

The Madison Oglethorpe Animal Shelter gets $3 per capita from the Madison County and Oglethorpe County governments based on the 2000 Census. The original contract did not call for a change in funding based on new Census figures.

Now, shelter officials would like to tie the facility’s funding to updated population figures, both in Madison and Oglethorpe counties.
County commissioners said they were impressed with what the members said and what they presented.

“I’ve been here 10 years and I’ve never seen anything like this,” said commissioner Mike Youngblood, holding the information packet.

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#1 J.E. Lewis on 02/13/12 at 10:43 AM [Reply]

Perhaps they could make a little more money if they were to be open the hrs when people that want to adopt can show up and not find locked doors at 4:30 in the afternoon. Staying open unfilled say 6:00 could keep animals alive long enough to be adopted and bring in money from adoptions. Perhaps!

#1.1 Virginia Moss on 02/13/12 at 04:03 PM [Reply]

They are open on weekend afternoons as well as Wednesday, Thursday and Friday afternoons, noon to 4 pm. They don't have enough funding for more extended hours. That's what the article is all about. They don't "make" money; adoption fees don't begin to cover their costs; if the fees were higher, many people would not adopt. They need support from the counties that they serve. They are not a government agency. They beg for every penny. Would you like to make a donation instead of complaining that you can't seem to get there on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon to consider adoption?

#1.2 Marissa on 02/13/12 at 06:10 PM [Reply]

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#2 Anonymous on 02/15/12 at 03:27 AM [Reply]

Mike Youngblood has "never seen anything like this?" Really? I remember the animal shelter advocates said they would "never need taxpayer dollars." And I remember when citizen after citizen gave presentations and spoke before Mr. Youngblood and the rest of the BOC, and said that the animal shelter people were lying, that in less than 10 years they would be hitting up the BOC for more and more tax dollars.

Well, here they are, wanting the money they said they would "never need." Sounds like Mr. Youngblood needs a memory refresher.

The taxpayers of Madison County cannot afford this nonsense. And the animal shelter people said they would "never" need any more tax dollars. Remind them what they said and hold them to their word. "Never" means never. Remind them we are in an economic depression, and our impoverished county barely afford the needs of human beings, much less some dogs and cats. Besides, coyotes and skunks are a much, much bigger problem in this county, and these "animal control" knuckleheads don't even deal with coyotes or skunks!

#2.1 Just Sayin' on 02/15/12 at 10:25 AM [Reply]

Seems to me (Anonymous) that the revenue from both Madison County and Oglethorpe County was suppose to adjust with the population increase in each county. Seems to me they are the one's not keeping their word. I'd be interested to know when/where they said they would "never need" funds from the counties that they SERVE. It's a public service, just like law enforcement, emergency services and fire departments. Is this Pethel?

#2.1.1 Anonymous on 02/15/12 at 07:50 PM [Reply]

Go back and listen to the tapes of the meetings. The vocal minority of people who started the animal control brouhaha during the housing boom, many (most) of whom bailed on Madison County and don't even live in Madison County anymore, said the shelter would "never" need more tax money.

This is a fine opportunity to revisit the complete lack of a need for an animal shelter here, and as we see it is mismanaged and we cannot afford it. Shut it down. Or better yet, put it on the ballot for November and let us vote on it like we should have in the first place and we the people can shut it down.

#2.1.1.1 Virginia Moss on 02/16/12 at 08:48 PM [Reply]

Did you not comprehend the post by Just Sayin'? The animal shelter is not asking for any more funding than was agreed to previously, which was based on census population figures. Even that money is just a part of the funds they need. They have to beg for donations constantly. The building and facilities were donated by someone a few years ago; no government owns or operates this service. We can vote to not donate our tax money, but we have no control over something government does not own. This bizarre notion of "the people" shutting down the animal shelter makes as much sense as government shutting down private business because they think it is mismanaged!

What makes you think the animal shelter is mismanaged? ".... as we see,...." Speak for yourself because I don't see it. If you think I should, then detail this thing I am blind to. Your saying it is mismanaged without supporting why you think so and including the rest of us in your view is incredibly arrogant and ignorant. Please, attempt to redeem yourself right here! What have you got to offer us?

#2.1.2 MC on 02/16/12 at 10:08 AM [Reply]

To Just Sayin : my taxes in MC are too high. I pay thousands of dollars to this county in taxes. Time for others that do not pay taxes but could to do more. I am not responsible for your dog or other animals and think animal control is another way to take my hard work resources away from me to give to others. So Just Sayin give a LARGE donation to them at the animal control and feel good about yourself.

#2.1.2.1 Anonymous on 02/16/12 at 02:15 PM [Reply]

MC, I am not responsible for uour children in the school system either, but I still have to help you support them don't I? I have never had chlidren and also pay a very high tax bill. Why is that my problem?

#2.1.2.1.1 Pet Owner on 02/20/12 at 10:59 AM [Reply]

I agree with the comment about not having children in MC schools. I continue to pay taxes for that and my children are no longer in school. As for controlling the pet population, let's blame THAT on the irresponsible pet owners. If they would spay or neuter their pets, we would probably no longer have the need for the shelter. But you have people out there who own two or three dogs and don't have them "fixed" then end up with a litter full of puppies they take to the shelter because they don't want to have to feed them. I donate to the shelter and will continue to do so. I would not mind paying taxes for the shelter but I'm sure there's money that could be used for the shelter rather than some of the idiotic things it's used for now.

#2.1.2.1.2 Virginia Moss on 02/20/12 at 06:01 PM [Reply]

Why is educating other people's children your problem? Let's see if I can make this brief. What you are doing is joining with all other citizens to educate society as a whole. An educated society is a strong and prosperous place full of opportunity for everyone, a place where no one has an excuse not to carry their own weight. Education is too costly for young struggling parents of several children to pay for; therefore, everyone participates to help out so that we can have the society that benefits us all. Does that answer the question?

#2.1.2.1.2.1 Pet Owner on 02/21/12 at 11:20 AM [Reply]

I didn't have a question....I made a statement.

#2.1.2.1.2.1.1 Virginia Moss on 02/21/12 at 12:46 PM [Reply]

Please note that I was responding to anonymous.

#2.1.3 mc taxpayer on 02/16/12 at 04:49 PM [Reply]

Unsustainable government by the people comes to my mind. Guess I am a tax serf.

#2.2 Anon on 02/15/12 at 11:03 AM [Reply]

Annonymous...your interpretation of Mr. Youngblood's quote may well be accurate; however, I think there might be a different meaning to his words. I'm just "reading between the lines" here, but I'm not convinced that Mr. Youngblood's comment was intended to be negative towards the shelter...

I reference the paper's comment just prior to his quote,
"County commissioners said they were impressed with what the members said and what they presented."

With his quote being the next and final sentence in the article, as well as the only quote by anyone on the board, I infer that Mr. Youngblood was actually complimenting the representatives on their thorough report stating that in all of his 4 years, he had never seen anything so well presented.

Again, though, I am simply speculating and reading between the lines... unfortunately, I feel that the article kind of "leaves us hanging" and therefore leaves his last statement up to interpretation. A conclusion sentence to clearly define the meaning of his statement in context would have been most helpful!

#2.2.1 Anonymous on 02/15/12 at 06:57 PM [Reply]

I find no confusion at all in the words written. To suggest that journalists interpret what somebody says is to turn proper journalism into opinion, which is what has happened in recent years. Perhaps this is why so many people are unable to separate the two, thinking news is news when it is really opinion or, worse, propaganda. The article does leave one hanging in that you wonder what Mr. Youngblood will think about the actual contents of the presentation in order to make a decision about the request. He has not made that decision yet.

#2.3 Virginia Moss on 02/15/12 at 07:52 PM [Reply]

"Remind them we are in an economic depression, and our impoverished county barely afford the needs of human beings, much less some dogs and cats. Besides, coyotes and skunks are a much, much bigger problem in this county, and these "animal control" knuckleheads don't even deal with coyotes or skunks!"

I would remind everyone of the deaths of two senior citizens a year or so ago at the fangs of a pack of ferral dogs. I also remember from my young adult days at a riding stable long ago. Over a period of a couple of months, ferral dogs killed all 6 nanny goats, their kids, all the foals and one pony for sport. Another pony died of grief a week after losing her baby. Also, my brother walked home from school one day by cutting through woods where he had to climb a tree to escape such a pack. I remember the little town of Rockmart years ago overrun with ferral dogs to the point of fright. No place can "afford" these things! Ask the citizens of Athens about their ferral cat problems (and they even have a shelter).

Just because the facility and service is called an animal shelter does not mean their purpose is to shelter all stray animals. Their purpose is to keep the population of ferral animals down by accepting and holding for adoption or, mostly, by putting them to death. The latter is too negative to promote, obviously, but evidently is not understood by detractors.

#2.4 Taxed on 02/17/12 at 10:14 AM [Reply]

"...our impoverished county..." with $5 million in the bank??? Doesn't sound very "impoverished" to me.

#3 runningdeer on 02/16/12 at 12:30 AM [Reply]

When the shelter opened there was supposed to be some leash laws for in city dogs and I wonder if those laws ever took effect? Now the animal officer doesn't pick up cats. They are too hard to catch, scratch and bite too much and are too prolific. Yes, ( way too prolific) and the wild cat population is growing all the time.
The officers seem to work county but why not all over the county including city and why not animals other than dogs? I agree, skunks, and wildlife are a real threat and problem. If they are on the pay role the officers should do more than check out dog calls.It might not be a popular subject and some may not agree, but as long as these folks are supposed to be control officers their job should include wildlife.

#3.1 Virginia Moss on 02/16/12 at 03:02 PM [Reply]

If you leave the coyotes alone, they'll take care of the cat problem as well as the racoons, rabbits, fawns, rats, mice and other rodents. They won't bother people, but people would need to keep their cats and small dogs indoors or behind fencing.

#3.2 Ms.K on 02/16/12 at 09:14 PM [Reply]

".... why not all over the county including city ...."

Listen and learn, please. Cities are responsible for government services within their borders. All other areas are the responsibility of the county government. Those areas are called unincorporated while the cities are incorporated. This is so basic I have great difficulty comprehending how so many posters here are so ignorant about basic government structure and responsibility.

#4 runningdeer on 02/16/12 at 06:00 PM [Reply]

Ms. Moss I do not agree. As for keeping my animals inside fencing that is a given. But it is not possible to keep neighbors cats out of fencing. As for coyotes, why would you want to let that population grow to destroy rabbits ( which were endangered species) or to kill fawns? Yes, they will kill small children if they get hungry enough. They are a threat to chickens and to cattle as well as small game.
Have y'all not been hearing about the real threat from rabies that surrounds our county now? A cow in Maysville, tested positive for it a few weeks back. Very rare. Both the owner and the vet are getting treatment. There has been racoons, a fox, skunk and other animals to be stricken and positively tested rabid. These were in Gainsville- Hall county area, Winder- Barrow county, Dekalb county and Gillsville, Ga. Too close to ignore.

#4.1 Virginia Moss on 02/16/12 at 08:21 PM [Reply]

First, what in the world makes you think rabbits are endangered?! Second, we have a horrendous over-population of deer across our entire country. They eat crops and gardens, suffer diseases due to overcrowding, including Chronic Wasting Disease which is feared to jump to cattle, and harbor the ticks that carry Lyme Disease. Coyotes can't kill an adult deer, but if they take the fawns, the population is controlled.

As to chickens, you keep them protected from the threats of foxes, racoons, skunks, coyotes and the family dogs; nothing new there.

If a small child is not being monitored by an adult, then any harm is completely the adult's fault; even under this situation, coyotes are highly reluctant to come anywhere near people. I have never heard of a child being killed by a coyote; however, how many have we read about being mauled and killed by pet dogs every year? Dogs even kill adults, especially in a ferral pack. Leave coyotes alone and please keep things in perspective.

#4.1.1 Anonymous on 02/16/12 at 10:02 PM [Reply]

Chronic Wasting Disease is found in 19 states, but Georgia is not one if them. It is very rare for it to found in cattle.

Deer ticks, although they commonly feed on the blood of white tail deer, get there common name from their color. The correct name for them is the Black legged tick. They are found in grasses, shrubs, and such. You are just as likely to get a lyme disease carrying tick from your dog as much as your are from a deer.

And yes, coyotes do kill adult deer. You can find trail cam pics of this all over the web.

The only way to control the deer population is through hunting or relocation programs. As for coyotes, just shoot them when you see them. Unless you plan on using 6 or 8 foot high fences, you won't stop a coyote.

#4.1.1.1 Virginia Moss on 02/18/12 at 11:44 PM [Reply]

My son-in-law is a wildlife veterinarian and I suffered Lyme Disease for 8 years and still have the after-effects. I contracted it while visiting the Okeefenokee swamp in 1982. You are right about Black-Legged ticks, but Dog ticks cannot transmit Lyme Disease because they molt too rapidly (not that a dog can't have a Black-legged tick on them).

As for Chronic Wasting Disease, it has not yet jumped to bovine animals from cervids; the mode of transmission is not yet known. This is a huge fear though. CWD occurs naturally only in mule deer, white-tailed deer, moose and Rocky Mountain Elk and very likely other subspecies of elk. It is only a matter of time before CWD is here; illegal moving of infected animals to breed larger deer here will see to that (and may very well already have).

As to coyotes, I do imagine a mated pair can bring down a slow or surprised adult deer if hungry enough and needing to feed their young. Coyotes don't normally hunt in packs; they are solitary unless mated. However, out west they have taken to forming packs; they're smart enough to do what needs to be done. I think we need them for control of deer and rodents. I would be interested to know of the number of incidences of loss of calves compared to total calves born in Georgia.

#4.1.2 MC deer hunter on 02/17/12 at 09:09 AM [Reply]

Ms. Moss : last several years deer on my property down. Way down. Some hunt clubs are not leasing land in MC and that hurts local businesses believe it or not. I know some have as good of hunting as 5 or 10 yrs ago but most my friends do not. What a hoot to hear of MC deer hunters going to south georgia more and more to hunt.

#4.1.2.1 Virginia Moss on 02/18/12 at 11:53 PM [Reply]

This is good news; my son-in-law, a wildlife veterinarian, will be pleased that hunting is having its desired effect in Madison County.

#5 runningdeer on 02/17/12 at 12:53 AM [Reply]

If you will take the time to research before you respond to my post Ms. Moss you will find that you are not accurate in your assumption that the coyote is a creature that is harmless to human and larger animals. Also, if you will check with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service you will find that as of May 2010 the U.S. had counted 618 endangered animal species. The Pygmy rabbit and the low keys marsh rabbit as well as the Columbian white tailed deer among those counted as endangered and protected species.
As for coyotes and children- as of June 2010 a three year old girl and a 6 year old girl had attacks from coyotes on different days. The 3 year old was attacked by one coyote. The 6 year old was attacked by two coyotes. These coyotes hunt larger prey in packs. Those attacks were in a suburb of New York City in Rye, N. Y. There was also an attack on a toddler while she was on a trampoline. The animal tried to drag the child into the woods. This happened in North , Carolina. If you assume that children can be "watched" 24 /7/365 then you are mistaken.
Presently the most livestock deaths 60.5% of the 224,000 in North America causing a majority of sheep, goat and cattle deaths are attributed to coyotes. That was in 2004.
Coyotes mate with domestic dog. These cross breed animal's are not as reluctant to be near people. When a coyote is fed by people it will become more aggressive toward humans and will not shy . There is another reason why people do need " perspective" as you said. Coyotes rarely kill Fox's. Fox's do not get around them so it is more uncommon.

#5.1 Virginia Moss on 02/19/12 at 12:18 AM [Reply]

Thanks for your research. I still don't think our common cotton-tail is endangered though. While your figures are interesting, they are for all of North America; that's a huge area. I would be more interested in the southeastern US. I do know coyotes are learning to hunt in packs, especially out west. Cross-breeding would be a real concern. I would hope no one would ever feed any wild animal, including coyotes.

Now, as to watching young children, in my mind there is no excuse whatsoever for a 3-year-old to not be constantly supervised close by. NONE. EVER! No excuses, no reasons, no explanations. NONE! Yes, 24/7/365, minute to minute, second to second. I did this; my daughter does this. All parents and those charged with caring for the child at any given time are not to fail in this responsibility! Is it hard? Is it restricting? Is it a heavy burden? h#$%, yes! Do it anyway! Do it right; there is no other way! Those young children were harmed by their care-takers, not the coyote. The six-year-old may be another story. So three children so far in all of time have been attacked, not killed, by coyotes. Again, how many have been attacked and killed by domestic dogs as of June, 2010? Perspective.

#6 Runningdear on 02/20/12 at 11:36 AM [Reply]

No , not just three children. Apparently you did not do research. I gave 3 as example only. There are photo's of attacks by coyotes on school grounds, the figures are much more than only 3. As for you or your daughter or anyone else being able to watch children at every second of every day , I seriously doubt it. You were probably an attentive and good mother but no human is capable of being that alert 100% of the time and children are quick and they get out before you know it. By the way, people in parks feed wild bears. People are not very bright when it comes to common sense. To quote Voltaire, "common sense is not so common". The children in question were harmed by the animals because they got away from their care givers . It happens .Animals are just animals . It isn't their fault that they do as they do. To let any animal over breed any area is dangerous if the animals have a large food supply and no one to cull the packs they will become aggressive. You still need to get your head on straight and stop trying to argue a lost point.

#6.1 Virginia Moss on 02/20/12 at 06:12 PM [Reply]

I'll give you every point you want, but not that of failure to watch very young children. The caregiver is responsible 24/7/365; therefore, they must watch every second without fail. That IS humanly possible because I did it, my daughter does it and certain mothers I know have done it without fail. Men and fathers fail at this quite a bit, but a dedicated mother does not. I suspect you are male and you are prbably right about the inabililty of men to be 100% responsible for young children. All women and mothers should take note of this and think twice about leaving babies and toddlers with men, even the father (and especially a step-father). NO EXCUSES, NO EXPLANATIONS, NO REASONS, NONE!

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Madison Oglethorpe Animal Shelter board members speak with BOC

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