Charter Choice: Should state or local school boards make the call on charter applications? Voters will decide on Nov. 6

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Monday, October 29. 2012

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Madison County voters will hit the polls Nov. 6 to choose a president, a sheriff, a District 2 commissioner and three local legislators.

They’ll also offer a “Yes” or “No” on a controversial Constitutional amendment that could significantly alter the Georgia public education system.

The question reads: “Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities?”

Actually, under state law, local school boards already have the authority to approve charter schools. What the amendment to the constitution, if approved, will actually do is allow the state government to set up an appointed board to make decisions on charter school requests, a move taking that authority out of the hands of local boards of education.

Andrew Broy, the president of the Illinois Network of Charter Schools, formerly served as the associate state superintendent for the Georgia Department of Education where he oversaw charter schools.

He penned an essay in support of the charter school amendment, which was published in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Broy says an unelected board shouldn’t trouble citizens.

“Many have argued that we shouldn’t allow an unelected state panel to make decisions about opening schools and allocating school funding because those decisions should be in the hands of a locally elected school board,” wrote Broy. “But who do you think sets state curriculum standards, provides federal funding to public schools, writes special education guidelines, implements school facilities regulations, approves transportation plans, and controls hundreds of decisions that directly impact local schools? The state board of education. An unelected body, appointed by the governor. No one seems to be especially worried about that unelected board, suggesting that the local control argument is a red herring cited by those who simply oppose providing autonomy to schools and holding them strictly accountable.”

But local school officials say voters need to think hard about what they’re considering.

Madison County School Superintendent Dr. Allen McCannon said he doesn’t want to tell county citizens how to vote, but he encouraged voters to look at the amendment with a critical eye, particularly regarding the costs.

“I would challenge all the voters to closely look at what’s happening in education and see the massive cuts in education and how that has affected the local taxpayer,” said McCannon. “And now you see something else that the state says isn’t going to cost the taxpayer, but the pie has already been cut. So if you cut an additional serving of the pie to go to this, to increase funding for charter schools, then where is it coming from?”

McCannon pointed out that Madison County schools have recently acquired “charter system” status, meaning the system proved to the state that its responsible enough to avoid certain state regulations and handle more decision making itself.

Likewise, McCannon said Madison County school leaders aren’t opposed to charter schools. He said he spoke with the superintendent of a charter system last week who expressed interest in locating in the area.

“And I will tell you, we’re interested in talking to him, because they can do some innovative things with a special niche of kids that we can’t do; so I’m in discussions with a charter school,” said McCannon. “I don’t want to name the school right now. But we’re not against charter schools. We’re a charter system. So we’re for innovation and shared governance.”

But McCannon said he doesn’t like the idea of a state appointed charter school board, saying it will be a “bureaucratic unit that is not answerable to the people.”

The superintendent said voters have two main things to consider.

“As you vote, you have to ask yourself two critical things: where are these funds going to come from? And what do you think about an entity where individuals are not accountable directly to the people,” said McCannon.

Former Madison County School Superintendent Keith Cowne agreed.

“Voting ‘No’ is a vote for local control like your existing local board of education that can approve applications for charter schools and the expenditure of local and state monies meant for students in public schools in Madison County,” wrote Cowne in a letter printed in the Oct. 25 Journal.

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#1 School parent on 10/29/12 at 04:11 PM [Reply]

We may have a so call charter school here but many counties have made it hard or impossible to get a charter school approved. Madison county was even late to the charter school game. I voted yes for this as believe in a choice. I voted also for anther new change in Washington.

#2 Ole Jake on 10/29/12 at 07:44 PM [Reply]

Perhaps we should also look at results. ie How many students graduate vs the number who started 4 years previous; the percentage who apply to college vs the percentage accepted; grades with other schools in the state - not just comparable size and ethnic makeup.
Not sure we want to give up control of how boards are put together. Who determines who appoints these boards? Needs to be much, much more public discussion and debate before we start so costly a journey

#2.1 Ms.K on 11/02/12 at 04:47 PM [Reply]

I agree. This is way too much of a major change to slip it in like this. There are other alternatives to consider. I do understand that those who have kids in school have a limited window for their children and they want something better now. Like the failure of my New Math, it was a lifetime failure for me. I do not hold it against them to vote "yes".

The truth is that there are two things hurting the education of our children and, therefore, the strength of our country. One is the failure of most parents to be involved with their children, both emotionally and intellectually. This is not connected in any way any so-called break-down of the family. Many two-parent families, even upper-class ones, ignore their kids; it's easy to do when both work or have careers in a country that does not support the family unit in employment practices. The parents either spoil or neglect their children so that the kids fail to be socialized properly by school age. This sets up the second problem.

Schools have to spend the majority of their time with discipline problems due to parental failure. This is a huge problem and the one that has prompted Ammendment 1. Still, charter schools will have to deal with the same problem and that is why many charters have failed. The problem isn't teaching; our problem is all the disruptive students. Until we have a way to remove them from the classroom (as private schools can do) no other solution will help.

I read one solution on another commenting site. Redirect lottery money to pre-pre-K so that all kids age 3,4 and 5 go to school for socialization and basic behavior learning (since parents are working anyway and can't or won't work with their children). At that point in human development a child can be molded or remolded to undo parental damage. By age 6 the child is set and hard to change. Early childhood education is far, far more important than college if we want a cooperative population ready and willing to accept personal responsibility and be the best they can be.

#3 Resident Redneck on 10/29/12 at 08:25 PM [Reply]

Actually I think the voters of these communities should decide if they want a charter school opened in their community? I mean is it fair to have someone who has never been here decide what our community needs.

#3.1 Virginia Moss on 11/02/12 at 05:16 PM [Reply]

"I mean is it fair to have someone who has never been here decide what our community needs."

Did you read the article?

“But who do you think sets state curriculum standards, provides federal funding to public schools, writes special education guidelines, implements school facilities regulations, approves transportation plans, and controls hundreds of decisions that directly impact local schools? The state board of education. An unelected body, appointed by the governor. No one seems to be especially worried about that unelected board, suggesting that the local control argument is a red herring cited by those who simply oppose providing autonomy to schools and holding them strictly accountable.”

Yes, a red herring with no merit. This is not about local loss of control. It is about doing something, anything to make a difference now. As far as the money goes, the only loss is the state portion of per-student allowance. Any student who goes to a state charter school will take the state per-student allowance with them to the charter school. The local schools still use the same amount of property tax collections in their area (poor as it may be) for their students, only they have less students if they lose some to the state charter schools, which will leave more money per student at the public schools. This is not a bad thing. As to where the state gets the money for the state charter schools that would have come from the local property taxes, I'm not sure.

#4 Anon Question on 10/30/12 at 01:06 PM [Reply]

If present education system supposed to produce an educated product for employment but the education end product is not a usable product or the educated person can not produce enough to really pay their way should continuing present system for this educated product be continued ? Present educated product coming out of colleges been taught in High School / College they have the right to " needs that will be provided for if you do it a certain way ". Problem is the USA or the WORLD system can not and will not support continuance of this. We borrow 40 cents on every dollar spent. I VOTE TO GIVE charter schools / CHARTER Technical schools a chance to try to correct our present educational system issue.

#5 Anonymous on 11/01/12 at 03:09 PM [Reply]

Sheriff's race is over. Kip's got it IN THE BAG.

#5.1 USMC on 11/05/12 at 12:24 PM [Reply]

Can we vote to make Kip get an education?

#6 Homeschooling Parent on 11/01/12 at 11:35 PM [Reply]

Everyone should be required to watch the documentary 'The Cartel' by Bob Bowdon before voting.

If Windstream is your only choice for phone and internet, would you allow them to be in charge of deciding if AT&T could provide service to your area? No. Because Windstream would then have to offer better service and lower prices to compete-if they are the only option, they can do as they wish, they control the market. What do you think the chances are they would approve AT&T setting up shop where they have a monopoly?

Neither should local school boards be allowed to approve (or deny) charter schools.

If local public school are doing well and parents are happy, they won't pull their kids from the public school and won't be 'draining the resources' of those public schools. The only way schools lose money is if they aren't doing their jobs and the parents want to pull their children from that school.

So if 75% of your students leave a failing school because they have a choice to go to a better school-what happens to those 75% of kids? They get a great education. The 25% left in the failing public school don't. Those opposed to charter schools and vouchers for education think it's better that 100% of the kids get a crappy education (because that's more 'fair'?!?!!??) than to allow 75% of the kids to get a good education?!?!?!

Offer parents & students choices and get rid of teachers unions and then public education will improve!

#6.1 Ms.K on 11/02/12 at 04:00 PM [Reply]

These are good points. My view is that everything that has been done to improve educational outcomes in Georgia has not improved outcomes. In the 1950s I experienced the New Math from which I never recoverd. It was a piecemeal idea that failed along with many others. It seems people fail to look at our overall system to see if the basic system is at fault.

Anyone can be elected to a school board whether they know anything at all about education and teaching or not. Mostly they do not. They may can manage money well, or not, but that doesn't help them to know the best way to educate children (and the voters don't know so how can they elect capable people). Superintendents may know more and advise boards, but they seem more concerned with administration and appearances than the best ways to educate. Teachers complain that no one listens to them, the very ones interfacing with students in the classroom. Perhaps the local, state and national requirements get in the way, like No Child Left Behind, even Race to the Top.

What is the fear of some folks that "outsiders" will tell them what to do? Do they think everyone in their own little town or community knows better than anyone else in the world how best to educate children? Obviously they don't. It's very important to be open to new ideas, but one has to have critical thinking skills to be able to assess such new ideas. Many people don't. Mostly, people don't like change; they want things done the way they have always been done; after all, they managed to get through life with a crappy education without starving to death yet.

With a state average of 92% denial rate for charter schools from school boards one has to wonder why the resistance from school boards. Are they afraid of competition? At the same time it has been demonstrated that charter schools haven't produced a better outcome; some have failed completely and shut down.

What I don't like about this current proposal is the strong eagerness of ouside companies wanting to get in here and make profits. Like with T-SPLOST the vague wording of Ammendment 1 and the involvement of a few politicians currently in power with the companies puts a bad smell on the whole thing. I just don't trust them to have the interests of education at heart. It's also just another piecemeal approach, same as charters, New Math and No Child Left Behind.

If marketplace competition is the answer, there should be planning for a voucher system and complete abandonment of public schools. There would be rules, regulations and requirements put on all participating private schools, of course, and parents would have to be involved to keep the private entity from ripping them off, both educationally and financially. But, then, we kind of already have that problem.

If there is a better way to educate children, let's find that better way within the existing school system and implement it. Clearly, money, any amount of it, is not the answer. There's no need to create a separate system outside the present one. If customized teaching is the answer (I think it is), then create that with smaller student/teacher ratios and have more classrooms concentrating on the particular learning styles or particular capabililties and/or weaknesses of particular students grouped together according to their similar situations (not unlike special education is done now). More teachers; less central office administration. That's an even trade-off financially.

#6.2 SardonicVeracity on 11/02/12 at 04:57 PM [Reply]

There are no teacher unions in Georgia...

You already have choices by the way.

If you are unhappy with your local school board actions, vote them out...do not give their authority to Atlanta!

#6.3 Virginia Moss on 11/02/12 at 05:26 PM [Reply]

I don't believe teachers in Georgia have a union but I could be wrong. Other than that I think this comment puts the situation very well. I believe local school boards have an incentive, both monetarily and egotistically, to not want charters. I hope I am wrong there, but I don't think so. If charter schools have to take the "bad" and "not so bright" students, I can't see how they can have any better outcomes than public schools, but I'd like to see them try. Perhaps they would be geared especially for the "bad" and the "not so bright" kids. That could be a huge boon to public schools and to the struggling students as well. I'd really support that!

#6.3.1 Ms.K on 11/03/12 at 12:59 PM [Reply]

That's a great idea. Vote NO on this ammendment 1 and insist that the local school board okay any charter that wants to educate difficult students no matter what. Advertise for it, encourage it, welcome it. Then the rest of us can relax as our children make real progress within the existing system. That would be one good solution.

#6.3.2 Local on 11/05/12 at 09:04 AM [Reply]

The 18 to 40 year old voter will support much greater the charter school admenment as they saw a falling system run by more often than not " custodial people ". This age group is entitled to its belief and vote. Present school systems in many areas has been referred to as " school system to prison system " . Madison County SRO's different I must note but what I hear from surrounding areas that not the case. I have not decided to support or not support school issue as still pondering that. Ms. K or Ms. Moss ask a non due's paying teacher if they have problems does it seem the school admin people are as cautious as if they paid dues.

#7 Anonymous on 11/04/12 at 02:08 AM [Reply]

Regarding Amendment 1, everyone I know, Democrat, Republican or otherwise, have all voted NO. Seems nobody wants this.

#7.1 Local on 11/05/12 at 01:02 PM [Reply]

Amendment will be tight but think more will vote "yes" than "no"

#8 Resident Redneck on 11/05/12 at 01:31 PM [Reply]

Well to be honest I don't know which way would be better because both sides have good arguements BUT I have heard that Charter schools offer a better education for the troubled student? BUT I would like to have the choice to decide and NOT leave it up to someone in a big city to decide WHAT I NEED? I mean how do they know what's best for US when they don't even know us?

#8.1 Virginia Moss on 11/06/12 at 09:47 AM [Reply]

You have plenty of representative local control, particularly if you stay in traditional public schools or in the charter schools approved by the local school board. It's your choice if an additional state choice is added. Simply more choices. As I previously posted, the state has tons of requirements of the local schools, telling them all what to do and when and how; been that way forever. How come nobody is up in arms about that? Loss of local control is a red herring, meaning not an issue, a distractive issue, an emotional issue.

As to the money, money goes with the student. If a traditional school does not have to educate ten students and they lose the funding for those ten students, they have lost both the student who costs money to educate and the money given to educate them. It's a draw; nothing is lost. In fact the traditional school gains in that local property taxes are not taken away so there is more money per student available in the traditional school. That's a good thing. The state charter schools will operate on the state per-pupil allowance and additional funds from the state general fund. Typically charters are able to function with less money than traditional schools so we have an overall savings in educational expenses. I don't see any problems here.

#9 Virginia Moss on 11/05/12 at 02:30 PM [Reply]

".... ask a non due's paying teacher if they have problems does it seem the school admin people are as cautious as if they paid dues."

I'm afraid I don't understand this part of your post or what your point is about it. Perhaps punctuation would help and additional clarification.

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Charter Choice: Should state or local school boards make the call on charter ...

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Charter Choice: Should state or local school boards make the call on charter applications? Voters will decide on Nov. 6

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