Oh, times are tough.
And county commissioners continued their budget talks last week with their revenue picture still as murky as a lake bottom.
County revenue picture still unclear; BOC aims to cut expenses
For instance, will the county’s overall property values (its tax digest) be significantly down this year, requiring either a hike in the tax rate or significant cuts in services? Will the county receive an estimated $600,000 in Homestead Tax Relief Grant funds being held by the governor, or will the state keep that money for itself as it deals with an estimated $2 billion revenue shortfall?
The BOC is desperate to cut costs and avoid any tax rate hikes. And the group seems set on axing at least two jobs to keep costs down, including a building inspector position and a transfer station job. They’ve also discussed eliminating animal control jobs, but there’s been less agreement at the table on that proposal.
After weeks of poring over each line of the county budget, the BOC has trimmed its projected expenses from $15 million this year to $14.48 million in 2009, a $563,000 decrease.
Of course, roughly $319,000 of that reduction comes from the elimination of all rainy day (or contingency) funds that the group always relies on to cover unexpected costs. The group currently has no money designated for contingencies.
For the past two months, the commissioners have met nearly every Wednesday afternoon to talk finances.
And last week, the group asked EMS director Dwayne Patton to discuss his department’s budget.
Commissioners have been troubled by the high overtime line item in EMS figures, $462,727.
BOC members agreed that they could reduce that line item by $130,000, with Patton using part-time paramedics to help offset overtime costs.
But commissioner John Pethel Sr. told Patton last week that he needs to do more as the county’s EMS director in order to save money for the county.
“I suggest to reduce costs in EMS, you (Patton) need to take on more responsibility,” said Pethel.
Madison County EMS used to have an assistant director, but the commissioners agreed in recent years to eliminate that post and split supervisor duties between three EMS employees. Pethel, whose son, John Pethel Jr., used to be the county EMS assistant director, said the new arrangement has not worked out.
The District 2 commissioner said two assistant directors will actually make more money this year than Patton, who earns $45,365.
“One guy is going to go over $52,000,” he said.
Pethel suggested that the BOC pay three “lead” paramedics 50 cents an hour more than the standard pay for their supervisor duties and lean more heavily on Patton for management responsibilities, such as requiring that Patton handle ordering of supplies. Three EMS supervisors currently make $2 more an hour than regular paramedics for their management duties.
“You need to do more as EMS director,” said Pethel. “I don’t think the taxpayers can afford four EMS directors.”
Pethel didn’t find much support from other commissioners at the table for his proposal. His motion to establish “lead” paramedics who earn an extra 50 cents an hour and to have “Dwayne do more” failed for lack of a second.
Commissioner Mike Youngblood commended Patton and his staff.
“The supervisors are well worth $2 an hour,” said Youngblood. “To have someone on shift 24/7, I think we’re getting a bargain.”
Youngblood said public safety should be the county’s first priority and that EMS has already committed to significant cuts, noting the $130,000 reduction in overtime costs.
“What else are you going to do?” asked Youngblood. “Why not just take back the three new trucks.”
Commissioner Wesley Jordan said that paying $2 per hour extra for each hour worked by an EMS supervisor totals $20,000, compared to $37,000 for an assistant director, who had a county truck.
BOC chairman Wesley Nash noted that the county ambulance service will cost $1.9 million but will generate nearly about $900,000 in revenue.
“That’s $250,000 a year to run four stations,” he said.
Pethel pointed out that Nash recently considered significant changes for EMS.
“About a year ago, Wesley, you were in favor of privatizing,” said Pethel.
Nash said he is still willing to consider the option.
“I’m still in favor of looking at it,” said Nash. “We should look at the cheapest method for providing services.”
Patton said he would do whatever the board wanted. He added that he feels his staff is a top-notch group and that the current arrangement with supervisors is beneficial to the county.
“I stand behind what’s being done now,” he said. “My folks do the best job you can get.”
Patton added that he felt Pethel was taking “a stab” at him.
“This is not a stab at you,” replied Pethel. “The sole purpose of this is to cut the budget so we don’t have to increase taxes.”
While EMS was a major focus of last week’s talks, the board discussed other departments, too.
Part-time building inspector Jim Baird, whose job is being considered for elimination, urged the group to keep him on staff. He noted that he is highly trained at what he does.
“Building is cyclical in nature,” said Baird. “We’re in a downswing, but a certified inspector is not easy to find. What’s cut today, may not be easily regained tomorrow.”
Commissioner Bruce Scogin said the board has many tough choices to make concerning the budget. He emphasized that he “doesn’t want to go and chop up the rec department budget,” but he said he feels most people who are struggling financially have to look at what they can eliminate, which is usually leisure activities.
“When you’re dealing with issues of whether people are going to keep their jobs, leisure activities should be among the first things we cut,” said Scogin. “That’s the first thing people have to cut at home. Here, we’re trying to whittle on essential services so that people can continue having fun.”
The proposed 2009 recreation department budget is up slightly from $628,330 to $630,150.
Pethel said he’s not in favor of cuts at the recreation department.
“You’re talking about people’s children,” said Pethel. “They’ll beg, borrow and steal for them.”
“I’d say lately there’s been more stealing than begging or borrowing,” retorted Scogin.
Commissioner Stanley Thomas said the recreation department was left off the 2003 special purpose local option sales tax (SPLOST).
“When I look at the recreation department, the board voted not to put a penny in SPLOST (in 2003),” said Thomas. “They (the recreation department) have been waiting. That’s a big part of our county.”
Thomas said there are a lot of things that the county provides, such as the recreation department, the library and the senior center, that people find important that are not directly tied to public safety.
Scogin said there are no easy answers.
“Like a lot of people, we’re grasping at straws, trying to cut everywhere we can,” said Scogin.
The BOC is desperate to cut costs and avoid any tax rate hikes. And the group seems set on axing at least two jobs to keep costs down, including a building inspector position and a transfer station job. They’ve also discussed eliminating animal control jobs, but there’s been less agreement at the table on that proposal.
After weeks of poring over each line of the county budget, the BOC has trimmed its projected expenses from $15 million this year to $14.48 million in 2009, a $563,000 decrease.
Of course, roughly $319,000 of that reduction comes from the elimination of all rainy day (or contingency) funds that the group always relies on to cover unexpected costs. The group currently has no money designated for contingencies.
For the past two months, the commissioners have met nearly every Wednesday afternoon to talk finances.
And last week, the group asked EMS director Dwayne Patton to discuss his department’s budget.
Commissioners have been troubled by the high overtime line item in EMS figures, $462,727.
BOC members agreed that they could reduce that line item by $130,000, with Patton using part-time paramedics to help offset overtime costs.
But commissioner John Pethel Sr. told Patton last week that he needs to do more as the county’s EMS director in order to save money for the county.
“I suggest to reduce costs in EMS, you (Patton) need to take on more responsibility,” said Pethel.
Madison County EMS used to have an assistant director, but the commissioners agreed in recent years to eliminate that post and split supervisor duties between three EMS employees. Pethel, whose son, John Pethel Jr., used to be the county EMS assistant director, said the new arrangement has not worked out.
The District 2 commissioner said two assistant directors will actually make more money this year than Patton, who earns $45,365.
“One guy is going to go over $52,000,” he said.
Pethel suggested that the BOC pay three “lead” paramedics 50 cents an hour more than the standard pay for their supervisor duties and lean more heavily on Patton for management responsibilities, such as requiring that Patton handle ordering of supplies. Three EMS supervisors currently make $2 more an hour than regular paramedics for their management duties.
“You need to do more as EMS director,” said Pethel. “I don’t think the taxpayers can afford four EMS directors.”
Pethel didn’t find much support from other commissioners at the table for his proposal. His motion to establish “lead” paramedics who earn an extra 50 cents an hour and to have “Dwayne do more” failed for lack of a second.
Commissioner Mike Youngblood commended Patton and his staff.
“The supervisors are well worth $2 an hour,” said Youngblood. “To have someone on shift 24/7, I think we’re getting a bargain.”
Youngblood said public safety should be the county’s first priority and that EMS has already committed to significant cuts, noting the $130,000 reduction in overtime costs.
“What else are you going to do?” asked Youngblood. “Why not just take back the three new trucks.”
Commissioner Wesley Jordan said that paying $2 per hour extra for each hour worked by an EMS supervisor totals $20,000, compared to $37,000 for an assistant director, who had a county truck.
BOC chairman Wesley Nash noted that the county ambulance service will cost $1.9 million but will generate nearly about $900,000 in revenue.
“That’s $250,000 a year to run four stations,” he said.
Pethel pointed out that Nash recently considered significant changes for EMS.
“About a year ago, Wesley, you were in favor of privatizing,” said Pethel.
Nash said he is still willing to consider the option.
“I’m still in favor of looking at it,” said Nash. “We should look at the cheapest method for providing services.”
Patton said he would do whatever the board wanted. He added that he feels his staff is a top-notch group and that the current arrangement with supervisors is beneficial to the county.
“I stand behind what’s being done now,” he said. “My folks do the best job you can get.”
Patton added that he felt Pethel was taking “a stab” at him.
“This is not a stab at you,” replied Pethel. “The sole purpose of this is to cut the budget so we don’t have to increase taxes.”
While EMS was a major focus of last week’s talks, the board discussed other departments, too.
Part-time building inspector Jim Baird, whose job is being considered for elimination, urged the group to keep him on staff. He noted that he is highly trained at what he does.
“Building is cyclical in nature,” said Baird. “We’re in a downswing, but a certified inspector is not easy to find. What’s cut today, may not be easily regained tomorrow.”
Commissioner Bruce Scogin said the board has many tough choices to make concerning the budget. He emphasized that he “doesn’t want to go and chop up the rec department budget,” but he said he feels most people who are struggling financially have to look at what they can eliminate, which is usually leisure activities.
“When you’re dealing with issues of whether people are going to keep their jobs, leisure activities should be among the first things we cut,” said Scogin. “That’s the first thing people have to cut at home. Here, we’re trying to whittle on essential services so that people can continue having fun.”
The proposed 2009 recreation department budget is up slightly from $628,330 to $630,150.
Pethel said he’s not in favor of cuts at the recreation department.
“You’re talking about people’s children,” said Pethel. “They’ll beg, borrow and steal for them.”
“I’d say lately there’s been more stealing than begging or borrowing,” retorted Scogin.
Commissioner Stanley Thomas said the recreation department was left off the 2003 special purpose local option sales tax (SPLOST).
“When I look at the recreation department, the board voted not to put a penny in SPLOST (in 2003),” said Thomas. “They (the recreation department) have been waiting. That’s a big part of our county.”
Thomas said there are a lot of things that the county provides, such as the recreation department, the library and the senior center, that people find important that are not directly tied to public safety.
Scogin said there are no easy answers.
“Like a lot of people, we’re grasping at straws, trying to cut everywhere we can,” said Scogin.
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When my children are enrolled in softball, cheerleading,etc. we pay a healthy fee for their participation. So, we not only pay fees for participation but then we pay property taxes too.
I agree children need a outlet, the parents need a outlet, but times are tough, and I have to admit I will not be enrolling my daughters in cheerleading this year due to the fees,gas to get there, snacks for the team, cost of parties/trophies,etc.
I think the commissioners need to look at the rec. department salaries of the directors, the snack department and others. Do the workers get to eat free when attending the snack bar?
If so, they need to pay. Do we need a overpriced director for 12 months out of the year or just during the peak season? Why does he need a assistant?
I would rather see the rec. dept. cut back than to cut back the EMS service and take a chance of one of my kids not making it to the hospital in time when in need.
Thanks Mr. Scogin..........(I am not even in your distict,so I am not campaigning).
Trust me when I say that we collectively as an EMS service appreciate the support from the citizens who realize what we do in this county. I live in this county as well and I pay taxes just like everyone else. I have no problem paying for the service we provide. Not to mention the service that some of us do for free... like the fire department and first responder programs.
Public safety as an entire whole should be the number one priority in this county. I have had to use Animal Control once... and it was beneficial, but it wasn't an emergency or for poop in my yard. I hate to see anyone lose their job. But cutting your fire or EMS is a mistake. Look at the flack and hatred Mayor Franklin caught when she closed AFD Station number 7.
I am asking people of this county to be very aware and skeptical when looking at these numbers that are printed in the paper, not all are factual to 100 percent. Trust me when I say... I don't make 50K a year... (laughing) It's actually not even near that.
Kevin Cheek, NREMT-P
MCEMS
HULL VFD
MCEMS - First Responder (Even though I'm not supposed to be. The county attorney said EMS employees couldn't volunteer to run EMS calls... so ssshhhh.)
Great article and I agree.
Now more than anytime we need to hang on to the programs that assist people. I’m in my sixties and have medical problems and a call to 911 being unanswered could mean death. Road accident victims need immediate help, as do all the other emergencies where life and death are at stake.
Animal control verses the sheriff’s department, well what would we do if we called the sheriff in the middle of a crisis and there was no one there. And you are right about needing more jails. It’s bad now but will get so much worse as folks continue to lose jobs and homes. Mothers and dads will feed their children even if they have to steal or kill. If anything we need more police officers. Maybe some of the folks the county is laying off can be transferred to the sheriff’s office. But money is the problem. I would not mind paying more taxes to get the services we need. This is a top priority.
I am an animal control advocate but I do see we may have to go back to the times where we didn’t have animal control. Back then people like me worked hard keeping strays off the roads and getting critters neutered, rabies shots and other needs. It’s been nice to go out on the road and not see animals in varying stages of need. We can urge folks to keep their critters up and people losing their jobs or homes to try to find homes for their pets not leave them behind or drop them off. That creates feral animals and put all of us at risk. Our neighbors who have a little land and secure homes can pitch in and adopt. No I do not want to lose animal control, it’s been nice, but I do see that is not one of our top priorities.
I have grandchildren that live with us and love to see them involved in the programs the recreation department offers but with the economy as it is I see it harder and harder for parents to get them to activities. I would rather see my grandchildren protected from crime and have help in case a medical emergency happens.
I feel for the lost jobs and pray something comes up for them. I pray for us all. No one feels secure and many are panicking. It took years to get to where we are today and it will take years for us to get out of this mess but I do have faith we can do it. We are Americans and as much as we fuss and fight we are survivors and we will be okay.
Also ask yourself this question: Is animal control accomplishing the purpose it was established for, to control animals to protect people? The answer is a resounding NO.
Remember the rabid skunk that attacked the elderly couple and they called animal control and animal control told them it WASN'T THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, they only deal with DOGS and CATS? ANIMAL CONTROL ISN'T WORKING.
Ask all the people who have had neighbors file false statements with animal control who have had to take time off work to deal with this petty nonsense and get it thrown out. ANIMAL CONTROL ISN'T WORKING.
Animal control officers abuse their "authority" and do not obey the ordinance as written. They also seek to intimidate others with a badge and a gun. If they want to have the authority of an actual police officer, they need to attend the police academy and become police officers. ANIMAL CONTROL ISN'T WORKING.
Remember the Gloria Andrews case where the county spent untold thousands to "control" the animals and neighbors Ms. Andrews said were the problems? After the case was over and testimony was heard, all that was determined was that the only "problems" were the ones MANUFACTURED by Ms. Andrews. All the neighbors testified that MS. ANDREWS, the ANIMAL CONTROL VET, was THE PROBLEM and she USED HER PETS to TAUNT others. On top of that, Ms. Andrews CONFESSED TO A CLEAR VIOLATION of the animal control ordinance by stating she "beats" her dog. We spent thousands of dollars to prosecute an innocent citizen, waste the time of the prosecutor, the board, the courts, the neighbors, etc., only to find that the real problem was a vindictive neighbor and that person, INCREDULOUSLY, is the ANIMAL CONTROL VET! ANIMAL CONTROL ISN'T WORKING.
You may sleep better at night knowing that we have something called animal control, but when we ask the following questions:
Can we afford animal control right now?
Is animal control accomplishing their mission?
the answer is NO.
When we ask this question:
DO A MAJORITY OF MADISON COUNTY CITIZENS WANT TO ELIMINATE ANIMAL CONTROL?
the answer is an overwhelming YES.
Now that they have seen our animal control experiment in action and they have seen it doesn't work, the vast majority of Madison County says we need to do away with animal control. We are watching and hope when a new commissioner and board is seated they will respect our citizen majority and suspend this inefficient waste of money we do not have to spend. To those board members currently holding / running for the open seats, you could go a LONG way towards winning your election by TAKING A POSITION and stating clearly that you WILL REMOVE this unnecessary burden from the back of the Madison County taxpayers.
Untold thousands spent ? Jack & Andys' job was routine . No extra bucks spent . ADA Webb is paid a flat fee if he has a case or not . No extra bucks spent . The animal control board (all two of them) are volunteers . No extra bucks spent .
The skunk case was the responsibility of the health dept. at that time . The ordinance that the BOC passed did not cover rabid animals.
When your children mis-behaved and you swatted them I bet you said ,"I beat their behinds ". When a jockey is rounding the track he is constantly swatting the horse with a crop . Just like a mis-behaving child sometimes you swat an animal for the same reason. To get their attention . You could say I "beat" them when all you did was swat . Sounds like you should be arrested for swatting a dead horse .
You are correct that A/C as written is not working . We also need protection from braying jackasses.
Please let us know who you are as it sounds like you have the answers to all our countys' problems .
Nuff said.
You speak of the important things that are necessary - things related to public health and safety and those are the things that should remain - they may need to be scrutinized, but other departments that are non-essential should be cut first.
The rec department is not related to public health and safety and should be cut. What is wrong with parents taking their own time to do things with their children? We do not need a rec department for that! The Sheriff's Department and the jail, EMS are vital and need to be top priority. Still - everything needs to be justified. Oh-by the way -Pethel was the biggest fan of EMS when his son was on board!?!
Although you emotional, hysterical nimrods do not want to think(are they really capable of this?) that Animal Control is involved in human safety - it is. Among many of your "misunderstandings"is that you do not understand how the animal control ordinances really work. Take some time and educate yourselves and open your minds; animal control-both state mandated and the county, require a person in the county to enforce them. Talk with animal control officers and look at what they really do. Let go of all the "hot-head" crap and emotional baggage that someone has fed you and find out for yourself. And why is Pethel so against animal control? - remember the "egg-on-the-face" debaucle when he openly accused the animal control officer of hunting on county time at a BOC meeting, only to find out that is was really his OWN son that was guilty and not Andy??? Where was his public apology?- ever since then he has
"marked" animal control for obliteration. And it was really because of his own stupidity!
All of the line items in the budget need to be checked out. There are ways to cut a little and sometimes alot in every department - question everything and see what really needs to be there and what can be done in a better, maybe cheaper way.
There is a saying that there are two ways to lead - one by pushing and one by leading. Why doesn't John Pethel be the first to lead and agree to work for nothing - because that is exactly what he is worth and maybe some of the other commissioners will consider taking cuts as well for the good of the county?
And just why is it they do not know the revenues? Revenue tracking and trending is an important tool for budget formulation. They are derelict if they have not addressed the root causes of why they lack this critical information.
Their performance is not what I’m talking about. It is low funds and what we need the most and if something has to be cut it can’t be EMS, fire department or the sheriff’s department. Times are going to get a lot tougher than they are now. If anything we need more folks for those jobs, especially the sheriff’s department.
Drugs are rampant in this county; I don’t know a family who isn’t touched in some way by this problem. Most domestic calls come from drug abuse. And addicts can sure make a mess and can be dangerous. With no money to feed their addictions it will get crazy and downright scary.
I will be so grateful if we can keep animal control but we have to keep what is top priority. We as a community can take care of the problem if we all obey Georgia State law and are responsible for our own pets. Keep them in a fenced in yard or in our homes and walk them with a leash. Make sure they have food and water and are not abused. Cats are another matter, they are hard to keep up, it’s a good thing they don’t do the damage a dog can do. People who let their dogs run loose have no respect for their neighbors and don’t need a dog.
There are enough people in Madison County who loves critters as much as I do and will take in strays. All of my critters are rescues even our pig.
They are also talking about cutting animal control? If they do who will you call when a dog is tearing up your trash? If you shoot it they will put you in jail.That's what animal control is for.
You can't cut the EMS service. They need the best equipment they can get.If you cut them and you need them because of a life or death accident and your wife dies are you willing to go tell your kids there Mom died because you cut money from the EMS budget?If you can do that and not feel anything you are not human.
People who want animal control don't even know the ordinance. It's not to keep animals out of your trash. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to not put your trash where animals (dogs, cats, raccoons, etc.) can get into it.
Just more evidence for why we don't need animal control. Some people think it is for the county to provide PROFESSIONAL BABYSITTERS at our expense to people who don't even know how to properly dispose of trash.
The REC department, I believe, has minimal liabilities that in turn could result in a actual lawsuit. Just because you do not offer soccer one season for instance or cut salaries does not constitute legal negligence on my part.
The animal control has limited liabilities due to the problem being animals.
All that I am trying to say is, when you are dealing with human life we take this very seriously and the commissioners have set a precendent in this county providing the current services and to cut back on those services could create legal hardships for the taxpayers if someone took this to task.
So, animal control and rec. dept on one hand and EMS services in the other hand..........
Let's see what is more important?
1. The EMS service we need this it saves lives.
2.The Rec.Dept.we may want it but don't have to have it. I've never heard of nobody's life being saved by playing Rec.sports. As a matter of fact you could get out there running around and have a heart attack and die.
3.Animal control: Jack is code Enforcement not dog catcher. Jack was given this job by the county because they didn't want to hire someone to do it so they just tell someone who is already employed that it is now part of their job. If they're going to do away with it they need to pass something saying if you see an aminal on your propetry you can shoot it without fear of going to jail or being sued.
What's more important kids playing Rec.sports or someone saving your life should the need come up?
When I was a kid we had to find stuff to keep us busy? Why can't they do that? If it was good enough for us and our parents why not our kids? Because we spoil our kids today and they don't respect us near as much as we did our parents.I have been to the games and seen these 12and 13 year olds get in a grown man's face and cus him like a dog and tell him what he was going to do and he couldn't touch them or he would be fired and arrested.
I have young children that are in elementary and middle school and believe me we have plenty to do. We have school activities, church activities, we clean our house, and we go camping as a family for fun.
The rec. department seems to be more of a political bomb-shell than anything else. No one wants to touch it because it could blow up a political career. It seems that the commissioners are more worried about making someone mad than doing the right thing.
Maybe I am looking at this wrong but Mr. Scogin is the only commissioner so far that has stood up and said the rec. department is something we should consider.
Mr. Pethel stood up for animal control (no brainer) and the EMS. Wasn't his son a assistant director at one time? Well, I question his motivation.
Just my 2 cents...